# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/281 "2014-05-27T00:21:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > One does wonder what might have motivated Thor to send the storm in the first place. Probably he’s just on a bender. It’s been [implied](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html) that what got Thor’s attention was the way his supposedly pious cleric has been acting out of character. Yelling “Thor’s Nuts” didn’t trigger the lightning storm but notice how Belkar and Roy react with surprise. This isn’t something they’d expect Durkon to do. And in the conversation between Durkon and the spirit we were told Durkon had initially been resisting giving the spirit any information but then switched to feeding him long memories. It appears that Durkon has been manipulating the spirit’s actions by the memories he chooses to show him. If Belkar and Roy have noticed Durkon’s been acting strange, presumably Thor has noticed as well. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/282 "2014-05-27T03:51:48Z")
The impression I got was : 1. the storm is natural 2. Adad the Thunderer was protecting them 3. He stopped protecting them when they flew out of his jurisdiction . ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/283 "2014-05-27T12:13:32Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The impression I got was : > > 1. the storm is natural > 2. Adad the Thunderer was protecting them > 3. He stopped protecting them when they flew out of his jurisdiction . How do you account for the errant lightning bolt that bypassed the lightning rod to Ka-Boom the engines? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/284 "2014-05-27T12:59:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yelling “Thor’s Nuts” didn’t trigger the lightning storm but notice how Belkar and Roy react with surprise. This isn’t something they’d expect Durkon to do. Why on earth wouldn’t they expect Durkon to do that? He yells stuff like that all the time. I assumed Thor was upset because he can tell Durkon’s soul is no longer in the driver’s seat… but I don’t know, gods seem to be a lot less knowledgeable and reliable in the OOTS-verse than you would normally expect. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/285 "2014-05-27T13:27:42Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The impression I got was : > > 1. the storm is natural > 2. Adad the Thunderer was protecting them > 3. He stopped protecting them when they flew out of his jurisdiction . Seems a bit un-Occam to me. We’ve got a storm that appears suddenly as soon as a cleric of the god of storms, currently possessed by the demonic servant of the god of storms’ arch-enemy, passes into the land controlled by the god of storms. Suggesting that this isn’t an action of the god of storms seems like a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/286 "2014-05-27T13:30:01Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > It’s my opinion that Belkar’s alignment has already shifted. From Evil to Neutral, perhaps; but he’ll never inch away from Chaotic. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/287 "2014-05-27T13:56:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If Belkar and Roy have noticed Durkon’s been acting strange, presumably Thor has noticed as well. I dunno. Thor has never been portrayed as particularly proactive, when it comes to being an attentive deity. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/288 "2014-05-27T13:59:17Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I dunno. Thor has never been portrayed as particularly proactive, when it comes to being an attentive deity. But Roy and Belkar don’t know that, do they? Remember the meeting with Miko? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/289 "2014-05-27T15:25:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From Evil to Neutral, perhaps; but he’ll never inch away from Chaotic. No, probably not, with the possible but unlikely alternative of true neutral. I still think he would have reacted to the vampire Durkon quite differently in the past. His concern for the well-being of the team and its mission, and his hostility towards threats against them, has a different quality. Almost like sincerity, less and less like he’s still faking it. It’s not just about the loot, XP, and violence anymore. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/290 "2014-05-27T15:35:59Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I dunno. Thor has never been portrayed as particularly proactive, when it comes to being an attentive deity. [Attentive, no](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html). But Thor does love a good fight and likes to see his guys win. After all the asskicking Durkon has done in his name recently, Thor might be miffed that his little asskicker doesn’t belong to him anymore. Who knows, maybe Hel has been bragging and Thor is pissed she took one of his dudes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/291 "2014-05-27T16:23:12Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Seems a bit un-Occam to me. We’ve got a storm that appears suddenly as soon as a cleric of the god of storms, currently possessed by the demonic servant of the god of storms’ arch-enemy, passes into the land controlled by the god of storms. Suggesting that this isn’t an action of the god of storms seems like a stretch. There’s also the rules of narrative. Durkon’s flashback scene was the opening page in the sixth volume of this entire story. It seems unlikely that it was just meaningless filler. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/292 "2014-05-27T16:42:54Z")
And even if Thor doesn’t consciously pay attention to mortal affairs, he might still pay subconscious attention to them and so send appropriate storms even without realizing it. He’s a god; they do things like that. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/293 "2014-05-27T18:04:05Z")
If Durkon isn’t Thor’s top cleric (and he might be), he’s almost certainly in the top 5 or 10. And it’s been established that Thor lawyers Hel for stewardship over even minor posthumous souls. My take is that Durkon can still pray (though his spell casting ability is severely limited), Thor is aware of the unnatural situation and is thoroughly pissed (in the American sense, but also the British sense though that goes without saying), and the ship could even go down because of it. But Thor is also easily distracted, so in 20 minutes his attention might be elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/294 "2014-05-27T18:44:18Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If Durkon isn’t Thor’s top cleric (and he might be), he’s almost certainly in the top 5 or 10. Level-wise ? Maybe. But hierarchy-wise he was a peon back when he got kicked out of the dwarven lands and nothing has changed since then (on that specific front). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/295 "2014-05-27T19:22:53Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Level-wise ? Maybe. But hierarchy-wise he was a peon back when he got kicked out of the dwarven lands and nothing has changed since then (on that specific front). But as a chaotic deity, Thor’s probably less concerned with the hierarchy of his church then he is about the individual performance of his worshipers. Also, IIRC, we’ve basically seen Thor in two kinds of strips: he’s either comically uninterested in what’s happening on the Prime Material, or he’s comically over-involved in what happens to his worshipers after they die. Which makes a lot of sense - a god would likely view most of what happens on the Prime Material as prologue, but the afterlife is forever. So, in this case, one of Thor’s top followers has died, but his soul hasn’t shown up in the afterlife. That’s likely something that would get Thor’s attention, whereas being [beat up by a jerk paladin](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0201.html) doesn’t really rate. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/296 "2014-05-27T19:39:58Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Level-wise ? Maybe. But hierarchy-wise he was a peon back when he got kicked out of the dwarven lands and nothing has changed since then (on that specific front). > [@Miller](#): > > But as a chaotic deity, Thor’s probably less concerned with the hierarchy of his church then he is about the individual performance of his worshipers. Don’t upper level cleric spells get granted directly by the deity? It seems that a deity would know who you are if you’re requesting a _Resurrection_, _Planar Ally_ or _Holy Word_ regardless of your spot on the earthly org chart. I realize that various comics have depicted this in various ways ranging from a automated ‘phone’ service to Thor getting direct requests for first level spells when he’s supposed to be fighting fire giants. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/297 "2014-05-27T22:40:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But as a chaotic deity, Thor’s probably less concerned with the hierarchy of his church then he is about the individual performance of his worshipers. Thor is chaotic? I thought the rule was that a cleric couldn’t be more than one step away from their deity, so as a Lawful Good character, Durkon could only worship a Lawful Good, Neutral Good, or Lawful Neutral deity. Is that not the case in the OOTS-verse? ETA: Or were you just describing his behavior (which certainly is chaotic) rather than his alignment? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/298 "2014-05-27T22:43:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Control Weather is not a _snap finger_ rain gone kind of thing. The spell description states it takes 10 minutes just to cast it, and another 10 before any effect takes place. In more descriptive terms I think it’s less “erase rain clouds from the sky” and more “create a local low pressure zone 50 miles off the coast that should organically attract the storm away from here”, if you follow my meaning. Which is presumably why, after Durkon’s awesome Control Weather display in [this strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html), the author felt the need to immediately lampshade it in [the next strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/299 "2014-05-27T23:43:52Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Thor is chaotic? I thought the rule was that a cleric couldn’t be more than one step away from their deity, so as a Lawful Good character, Durkon could only worship a Lawful Good, Neutral Good, or Lawful Neutral deity. Is that not the case in the OOTS-verse? > > ETA: Or were you just describing his behavior (which certainly is chaotic) rather than his alignment? Well, his behavior and his alignment should be the same thing - if he’s acting in a chaotic manner, it’s because he has a chaotic alignment. Most D&D systems that include Thor as a deity, list him as Chaotic Good, and that seems to best describe his behavior in the original Norse myths. Technically, this means that Durkon shouldn’t be able to be a priest of Thor, but Burlew has said before he’s not going to let rules get in the way of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/300 "2014-05-29T08:17:40Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Which is presumably why, after Durkon’s awesome Control Weather display in [this strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html), the author felt the need to immediately lampshade it in [the next strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html). Heh, I had forgotten about that gag. But this being the second time raises a worrying concern about Durkon. Namely, who the hell routinely memorizes Control Weather ? 🙂 It’s a 7th level spell. It’s a _completely useless_ 7th level spell (when your god doesn’t cheat). And sure, it’s probably one of Durkon’s domain spells, what with the whole storm god thing, but Thor’s \*other \*domains are Protection (Repulsion), Good (Holy Word), Strength (Bigsby’s Grasping Hand) and War (Power Word:Blind). All of which are 10x more useful than stupid, screams-for-a-scroll-you’ll-never-actually-use Control Weather ! :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=16)