# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 151
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3001 "2016-08-17T19:57:40Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > From that, I assume that Eugene was screened when he first arrived, but was told he couldn’t enter until the BOoV was satisfied. That’s canon. Burlew showed Eugene’s screening in one of the books. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3002 "2016-08-17T20:07:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sure, for the heir. But **Larry** ’s question was about the father who originally took the oath. If Xykon went and got himself killed in some way that was totally unrelated to Roy’s quest, we know Roy would still get into heaven, but what about Eugene? I’m guessing probably. We saw that Violet didn’t qualify to get into Heaven directly so presumably she didn’t die trying to fulfill her oath. But we also saw that she did get in once one of her descendants fulfilled the oath. And it would seem unfair (and Lawful Good Heaven presumably is fair) that some people would be denied their afterlife because their oath was rendered impossible to fulfill by outside circumstances. So I’m guessing the policy is that anyone who’s being held due to an unfulfilled oath gets in once the oath is either fulfilled or becomes impossible to fulfill. In a bureaucratic sense, the file gets closed and everyone gets processed. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3003 "2016-08-18T01:14:47Z")
Yeah, I think Eugene is a unique case because he flat out gave up on the oath and foisted it off on Roy. I think anyone who had to give up the oath because they, say, were ordered by their liege lord to defend a village against and orc horde, would be granted access to the LG afterlife based on the “trying to do what’s right” clause that got Roy in. ---
**Author:** ![satogata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@satogata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/satogata)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3004 "2016-08-18T18:17:56Z")
**[1049: An Uplifting Discussion](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1049.html)** Yay splash page! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3005 "2016-08-18T19:13:07Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Yeah, I think Eugene is a unique case because he flat out gave up on the oath and foisted it off on Roy. I think anyone who had to give up the oath because they, say, were ordered by their liege lord to defend a village against and orc horde, would be granted access to the LG afterlife based on the “trying to do what’s right” clause that got Roy in. I think a more interesting question would be what if somebody decided they weren’t ready to fulfill a quest yet. Suppose we have a hypothetical fighter - we’ll call him Ray - who has a family blood oath to kill a really powerful sorcerer - who we’ll call Zikon. Now Ray realizes Zikon has several levels of power over him and if Ray tried to fight Zikon now he’d just end up dead. So Ray decides the best thing to do is spend a few years getting XP’s and leveling up so he has a realistic chance of actually defeating Zikon rather than just dying in battle against him. But while Ray is off gathering XP’s he has an unfortunate encounter with a half-orcish gladiator and is killed. Having lived a generally LG life, Ray shows up at Paradise to have his life reviewed. Is the Deva going to hold it against Ray that he hadn’t directly tried to kill Zikon (which he hadn’t) or will the Deva accept the idea that Ray was working his way along a path towards a future fight with Zikon? If the latter, how much preparation is Ray allowed? Suppose Ray reaches the point where he has a 75% chance of being able to defeat Zikon. But rather than confront Zikon, Ray delays so he can gain more power and improve his odds. Suppose he gets to the point where has a 95% chance but still chooses to put off the fight? At what point does preparation cross over into procrastination? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3006 "2016-08-18T19:17:50Z")
This one was not such a brilliant update. Let’s get to the action! ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3007 "2016-08-18T19:33:42Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > This one was not such a brilliant update. Let’s get to the action! I thought it was a real gas. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3008 "2016-08-18T19:35:17Z")
This is a scene-setting strip. So expect some kind of action somewhere in the Passage Pass. Of course, he could fool us by having an uneventful passage, but I don’t expect that. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3009 "2016-08-18T20:00:39Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > This is a scene-setting strip. So expect some kind of action somewhere in the Passage Pass. Of course, he could fool us by having an uneventful passage, but I don’t expect that. I think the Uneventful Passage is probably back in the first dungeon near the Tunnel with the Sort of Reddish Floor and the Cavern of Very Easy Encounters. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3010 "2016-08-18T22:22:45Z")
It could be setting up for some sort of encounter involving an antimagic field, to preclude questions of why the Mechane isn’t failing in it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3011 "2016-08-19T01:15:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > At what point does preparation cross over into procrastination? When the delay becomes the ends rather than the means. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3012 "2016-08-19T07:29:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It could be setting up for some sort of encounter involving an antimagic field, to preclude questions of why the Mechane isn’t failing in it. Not sure that would work. There’s still an enchantment that makes it light enough that the balloons can lift it. I think it’s more likely a setup for the balloons being damaged or at least the danger of such. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3013 "2016-08-19T12:31:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Not sure that would work. There’s still an enchantment that makes it light enough that the balloons can lift it. > > I think it’s more likely a setup for the balloons being damaged or at least the danger of such. Anti-magic could still play a role. The Mechane’s balloons have enough lift to hold the boat, but not the ballast, so they have to dump any ship based weapons, leaving the Order as their only defense for the upcoming Roc attack. Although I think a Roc attack that damages the balloons, thereby causing the Mechane to drop like a rock, is more likely. Too bad a _Feather Fall_ can’t affect something as big as an airship. Or Bigsby’s Lifting Hand. Or Fly, since it’s not sentient (and they don’t have a Druid to cast Awaken, not that you can cast Awaken on a dead tree anyway). Floating Disc is too small. Maybe a Summon Monster VI, and snag some Air Elementals. Or, you know, a genie that can repair the balloons. Dang, Wizards can do a bunch of stuff but there’s some odd limitations to most of it. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3014 "2016-08-19T13:08:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If the latter, how much preparation is Ray allowed? Suppose Ray reaches the point where he has a 75% chance of being able to defeat Zikon. But rather than confront Zikon, Ray delays so he can gain more power and improve his odds. Suppose he gets to the point where has a 95% chance but still chooses to put off the fight? At what point does preparation cross over into procrastination? So, the McClellan test? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3015 "2016-08-19T13:15:27Z")
And why should children be bound by an oath made by a parent anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3016 "2016-08-19T13:20:20Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > And why should children be bound by an oath made by a parent anyway? Listen, if we’re going start questioning whether the rules of D&D magic make sense, there are plenty of worse areas to pick apart. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3017 "2016-08-19T13:21:26Z")
The best spell for keeping a large object in the air is Reverse Gravity. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3018 "2016-08-19T13:32:46Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Anti-magic could still play a role. The Mechane’s balloons have enough lift to hold the boat, but not the ballast, so they have to dump any ship based weapons, leaving the Order as their only defense for the upcoming Roc attack. Everyone knows that the best defense for roc attacks is a [Blackwing magically increased in size](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0955.html). ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3019 "2016-08-19T13:43:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The best spell for keeping a large object in the air is Reverse Gravity. No argument, but that just moves the problem forward in time to the point where the spell duration ceases, which, being round/level, ain’t much. . Granted, that’s enough time for the passengers and crew to disembark, assuming they have a way to get down safely. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3020 "2016-08-19T13:59:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Listen, if we’re going start questioning whether the rules of D&D magic make sense, there are plenty of worse areas to pick apart. _ **Stuart:** Okay, if you’re going to question the importance of an actor’s signature on a plastic helmet from a movie based on a comic book, then all of our lives have no meaning!_ 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=150) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=152)