# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 152
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3021 "2016-08-19T17:32:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If the latter, how much preparation is Ray allowed? Suppose Ray reaches the point where he has a 75% chance of being able to defeat Zikon. But rather than confront Zikon, Ray delays so he can gain more power and improve his odds. Suppose he gets to the point where has a 95% chance but still chooses to put off the fight? At what point does preparation cross over into procrastination? My best guess would be that intention plays a role. Is Ray still training to win? Does he really think a 95% chance is not good enough? The judge said that trying is the most important part. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3022 "2016-08-19T19:25:25Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Although I think a Roc attack that damages the balloons, thereby causing the Mechane to drop like a rock, is more likely. Nah, it’ll be a rock attack that damages the balloons, thereby causing the Mechane to drop like a Roc… > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > And why should children be bound by an oath made by a parent anyway? If you read the actual text of the oath (it’s in SoD), you’ll find that the oath Eugene swore **did not** bind his heirs. And if it did, I’m sure a being of pure Good would find such a provision to be Evil and thus not be required to enforce it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3023 "2016-08-19T20:13:26Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > If you read the actual text of the oath (it’s in SoD), you’ll find that the oath Eugene swore **did not** bind his heirs. And if it did, I’m sure a being of pure Good would find such a provision to be Evil and thus not be required to enforce it anyway. The full text was quoted on the last page, so I’ll quote it again I, Eugene Greenhilt, swear on the blood that flows from my wounds this day that I shall not rest, in this life or any other, until I or my heirs have enacted horrible vengeance on those that have slighted me, named here as Xykon the sorcerer. So you’re correct to say they aren’t bound by the oath. However, it seems that Eugene is still bound until his heirs fulfill the oath. And if that heir is lawful good, I suspect they would feel an obligation to free their ancestor from their binding, if at all possible. It’s also in the oathspirits’ best interest to convince their heirs that they are in fact bound, and would be unable to enter their afterlife until they fulfilled it. That might even motivate people of non-lawful alignments. All I can find on a bloodoath in D&D is a very high level spell that actually deals out unhealable damage if you aren’t taking actions to fulfill it. And it apparently changes one’s alignment to lawful. So I can’t add anything from that. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3024 "2016-08-19T20:49:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I, Eugene Greenhilt, swear on the blood that flows from my wounds this day that I shall not rest, in this life or any other, until I \*\*or my heirs \*\*have enacted horrible vengeance on those that have slighted me, named here as Xykon the sorcerer. . You know, it occurs to me that by persuading his heirs to go after Xykon, he was technically attempting to fulfil the strict letter of the oath. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3025 "2016-08-19T21:10:23Z")
Right. \*\*Eugene \*\*can’t rest _until his heirs fulfill the oath_. Roy could walk away clean, it isn’t his oath, and maybe Eugene bothers him the entire rest of his life, then starts bothering Roy’s children and grand-children about it. We know, however, that won’t happen. Roy and his friends are stuck being the Heroes in this particular tale. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3026 "2016-08-19T21:15:14Z")
Roy even knows that. Way back in Shojo’s throne room, Roy told Eugene that if Xykon wasn’t a threat to the world, he’d have abandoned the oath already. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3027 "2016-08-19T21:24:31Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Roy even knows that. Way back in Shojo’s throne room, Roy told Eugene that if Xykon wasn’t a threat to the world, he’d have abandoned the oath already. My problem with that is that I question whether it would break his lawful good alignment. Sure, to not do it because there’s greater good in not doing it would be fine. But to merely decide not to do it because he hates his dad? And sure, maybe a single non-LG action is fine. But it wouldn’t be a single action. It would be a repeated choice. Like I said, I don’t see how a lawful good character could not feel an obligation to fulfill their ancestor’s blood oath. Then again, if Eugene is still counted as lawful good despite choosing not to fulfill his oath, then I guess Roy would be in an even better position. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3028 "2016-08-19T22:15:51Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > If you read the actual text of the oath (it’s in SoD), you’ll find that the oath Eugene swore **did not** bind his heirs. And if it did, I’m sure a being of pure Good would find such a provision to be Evil and thus not be required to enforce it anyway. Not to get all real world theology here, but in Christianity, everyone is still tainted by the original sin of Adam, which was passed on to all his heirs (i.e everyone) and prevents us from going to heaven until we properly repent. And Christians are pretty adamant that their good is pure Good. So there’s some precedent for good deities being okay with the idea of genetic sins. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3029 "2016-08-20T02:15:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Not to get all real world theology here, but in Christianity, everyone is still tainted by the original sin of Adam, which was passed on to all his heirs (i.e everyone) and prevents us from going to heaven until we properly repent. And Christians are pretty adamant that their good is pure Good. So there’s some precedent for good deities being okay with the idea of genetic sins. That occured to me when we had this same discussion on the GitP forum a few days ago. It would bother me if I were still a Christian, but I haven’t been one for 40-some years. (And let’s try not to get into a theological discussion on Christianity in this thread, please.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3030 "2016-08-20T04:36:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Not to get all real world theology here, but in Christianity, everyone is still tainted by the original sin of Adam, which was passed on to all his heirs (i.e everyone) and prevents us from going to heaven until we properly repent. For certain flavors of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3031 "2016-08-20T07:54:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s also in the oathspirits’ best interest to convince their heirs that they are in fact bound, and would be unable to enter their afterlife until they fulfilled it. That might even motivate people of non-lawful alignments. Convincing people they’re bound by an oath when they actually aren’t doesn’t seem like something Lawful Good beings would do. The Deva chastised Roy for the fact that he sometimes used deceptive means to achieve Lawful Good ends. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3032 "2016-08-21T02:14:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Convincing people they’re bound by an oath when they actually aren’t doesn’t seem like something Lawful Good beings would do. The Deva chastised Roy for the fact that he sometimes used deceptive means to achieve Lawful Good ends. Again, my assumption is that what you do after you die doesn’t matter anymore. I also note that Roy still got in. The only requirement was that he was trying to be lawful good. So it sure sounds like that’s all that’s necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3033 "2016-08-30T14:02:42Z")
[\*\*1050 Hard Pass \*\*](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1050.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3034 "2016-08-30T14:43:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Convincing people they’re bound by an oath when they actually aren’t doesn’t seem like something Lawful Good beings would do. The Deva chastised Roy for the fact that he sometimes used deceptive means to achieve Lawful Good ends. This reminds me that Roy asked his archon if it had taken care of the things he’d asked it to do while he was back down on earth. Makes me wonder if Roy set up some kind of heavenly ace in the hole for the last encounter and the comic was just putting in a quiet hint. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3035 "2016-08-30T18:51:44Z")
“See, I’ve already forgotten that.”, Brilliant, funniest line from OotS for a long while. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3036 "2016-08-31T02:51:59Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > This reminds me that Roy asked his archon if it had taken care of the things he’d asked it to do while he was back down on earth. Wait, what? When? Or did you mean when Roy was scrying with dear old Dad? And, you know, still in the afterlife? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3037 "2016-08-31T11:11:07Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Wait, what? When? Or did you mean when Roy was scrying with dear old Dad? And, you know, still in the afterlife? [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html) Panel 2 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3038 "2016-08-31T13:27:53Z")
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3039 "2016-08-31T18:06:42Z")
I said about the previous strip: > [@dtilque](#): > > This is a scene-setting strip. So expect some kind of action somewhere in the Passage Pass. And what do you know, they’ve run into an encounter in Passage Pass. I hope everyone is suitably impressed with my predictive abilities. For my next prediction, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that neither flight nor fight will work to resolve this encounter. They’re going to have to outwit the frost giants. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3040 "2016-08-31T18:27:35Z")
[Has it really been less than seven weeks?](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=151) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=153)