# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 163
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3241 "2017-02-01T18:37:22Z")
Andi? Just a little bit of advice, for future reference: if your enemies spend no effort to prevent you from moving in a certain direction despite having the resources to do so, that probably means that moving in that direction won’t end well for you. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3242 "2017-02-01T21:22:46Z")
They should just land on a nearby glacier. Because that would still get them somewhere faster than this plot. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3243 "2017-02-01T21:42:24Z")
Ah, the person that becomes leader only to find out that leadership isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be. The schadenfreude is strong in this comic. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3244 "2017-02-01T23:46:20Z")
I think it was Churchill who said that in a crisis, the best choice you could make was the right thing, the second-best choice you could make was the wrong thing, and the worst choice was nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3245 "2017-02-02T01:09:36Z")
Bandana is either a rogue or rogue-adjacent type with at least some decent levels under her belt who works on a ship. Which makes me wonder how well tying her up is really going to work. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3246 "2017-02-02T04:24:57Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Because that would still get them somewhere faster than this plot. I know. I deleted my browser bookmark to OOTS. Now I need to stop noticing this thread and check back in a year or so and read the 20 strips I missed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3247 "2017-02-02T04:42:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Whether dedication to a particular ethos is “lawful” or not also depends on the nature of the ethos. Aleister Crowley famously declared, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.” Someone who follows that ethos to the exact letter, every day, is not being “more lawful” than, say, an observant Catholic who misses Sunday Mass two or three times a year. “My word is my bond; I fulfill every contract, and honor every promise.” “But you’ve never given your word – or signed a contract, or made a promise.” “Uh, yeah. After all, given how lawful I am, the alternative would be pretty stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3248 "2017-02-04T04:42:05Z")
And now that people are no longer discussing the new comic: > [@Jophiel](#): > > Roy is lawful because he makes the conscious decision to use rules and order in pursuit of good. And that is our fundamental point of disagreement. Despite what the Deva says, I don’t see Roy doing this, especially since he died. I see Elan doing it all the time. His rules are not mechanics, and they aren’t absolutely true. And he alone follows them, and chooses to do so. I realize that alignments are hard to change here. I like it that way myself. The only canon alignment change here is killing someone you swore an oath of fealty to. Even genocide of the Goblins race isn’t enough to make you not Lawful Good. Still, I think that Lawful Good Roy is less lawful than Neutral Good Elan. Other than providing me with a bunch of times that Roy consciously made the choice to follow some set of rules, I don’t see that changing. Making special exceptions for Elan’s “Narrative Law” definitely won’t do it. Neither will taking something that has complex rules and trying to claim it is Chaotic. Fortunately, I’m not your DM, so there’s no problem with me continuing to disagree with you. Heck, this crap is why I say DMs shouldn’t really enforce alignment beyond the very beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3249 "2017-02-04T14:59:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Still, I think that Lawful Good Roy is less lawful than Neutral Good Elan. Might be; I’m not familiar with that character. Is he yet another palette-shifted relative of the extremely chaotic Elan who adventures with Roy? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3250 "2017-02-04T15:50:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I see Elan doing it all the time. His rules are not mechanics, and they aren’t absolutely true. And he alone follows them, and chooses to do so. He alone? We’ve met two others who follow the Narrative: [Tarquin](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) and [Julio](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0391.html) [Scoundrel](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html). Three people, of three different alignments (Chaotic Good, Lawful Evil & Chaotic Neutral), who all recognize the same Narrative mechanics helping to guide their universe. And the other two are considerably more rational people than Elan. And, given that one is a Fighter and the other a Rogue, this isn’t even a bardic thing we’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3251 "2017-02-04T16:03:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Neither will taking something that has complex rules and trying to claim it is Chaotic. Calvinball. Also, chaos theory as a branch of mathematics. But mostly, Calvinball. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3252 "2017-02-04T16:16:35Z")
Also, the Narrative isn’t “Chaotic” any more than physics are chaotic or, in the case of V, metaphysics are chaotic. You’re not lawful for recognizing any of them, you’re not chaotic for being ignorant of them. They just ARE. You can be Lawful, Chaotic, Good, Evil or Neutral and recognize the Narrative, just as you can be any alignment and still recognize the metaphysics of Magic. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3253 "2017-02-04T17:41:18Z")
Heck, even V recognizes that [Probability is willing to sneak into a back alley to service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html). E appears to be very annoyed by that fact, and wishes that their universe didn’t work that way, but e still recognizes that it does. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3254 "2017-02-04T17:49:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Heck, even V recognizes that [Probability is willing to sneak into a back alley to service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html). E appears to be very annoyed by that fact, and wishes that their universe didn’t work that way, but e still recognizes that it does. V also recognizes that [random encounters are tedious](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0145.html) and so only one will occur per journey between major plot points. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3255 "2017-02-08T20:47:41Z")
[1065](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1065.html) is up And of course Elan went to “Bard Camp.” Wizards go to schools, fighters go through boot camp, and thieves go to the guild. But bards? They spend a summer at “Bard Camp.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3256 "2017-02-08T21:18:18Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > And of course Elan went to “Bard Camp.” Wizards go to schools, fighters go through boot camp, and thieves go to the guild. But bards? They spend a summer at “Bard Camp.” Hey now, Roy’s Fighter College [cost 40k a year](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html)! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3257 "2017-02-08T23:28:36Z")
[This isn’t the first reference to Bard Camp](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3258 "2017-02-09T00:03:52Z")
[There’s an even earlier mention of camp here.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html)(Okay, that was “summer” camp, but probably the same thing) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3259 "2017-02-09T11:48:51Z")
We’re not allowed to discuss politics and current events in the GitP forum, and it may not be an especially good idea here, but what the hell. Did anyone else see a parallel between Andi’s reaction to barely making it past the mountain with probably some damage and a certain person who’s recently become a world leader? Someone who thinks they had a landslide victory when they actually squeaked out a technical win? I have no idea if this was intentional, but I can’t help but think so. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3260 "2017-02-09T13:07:01Z")
That’s a hell of a stretch there. I can’t see any justification for it. [Hmm, let’s see.](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?158499-OOTS-732-The-Discussion-Thread/page2&p=8832107#post8832107) _"As usual, there are no references to current politics beyond those readers invent for themselves. But hey, stop reading if it makes you feel better. "_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=162) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=164)