# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 188
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3742 "2017-08-22T15:17:40Z")
Well, now we know what magic help they can expect from the clerics of Thor. Not much. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3743 "2017-08-23T00:53:26Z")
At least we know Thor has sent warning in advance. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3744 "2017-08-23T01:02:50Z")
Not necessarily. In fact, I’d be surprised if he did. Here’s my guess as to what happened before the current plot arc. I posted this to the GitP forum, but most people seem to have ignored it. > [@](#): > > A good-sized group of clerics of Thor (possibly all of them) were returning to their temple by that inside passage. They were ambushed by the vampires just outside the door to the temple. The vampires got the high-level clerics, but these low-level ones escaped through that door. So they’ve been quaking in fear ever since. And made what few preparations they could, which include readied actions for casting those spells when a door opened. I’m going to guess that there was a deliberate sacrifice by the high-level clerics to save the low-level ones. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3745 "2017-08-23T02:30:47Z")
You’re probably absolutely right. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3746 "2017-08-23T04:26:13Z")
One of the clerics refer to the group as the assistant overnight caretaker acolytes. Basically, these guys are the night shift. Which in most organizations, means the guys at the bottom of the experience ladder. Durkula and his crew struck in the middle of the night (which makes sense with them being vampires). The temple only had its minimal night shift staff on duty. If such is the case, it may offer a hint at Durkon’s plan. He knew that the strongest clerics were off-duty - so they’re presumably still alive somewhere in the city. Durkon may be steering the vampires into an ambush. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3747 "2017-08-23T07:01:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If such is the case, it may offer a hint at Durkon’s plan. He knew that the strongest clerics were off-duty - so they’re presumably still alive somewhere in the city. Durkon may be steering the vampires into an ambush. Doubt that very much. Note the mitre that the cleric they’re draining in [strip 1085](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1085.html) is wearing. The general rule in the strip is that only the chief priest of a temple wears those. And the chief priest is usually the highest, or at least one of the highest, level clerics at that temple. Since the High Priest of Thor is away right now, he was probably the highest level cleric in the city. We don’t see the bodies of the others that were drained there (just their heads and feet), so we can’t be sure they’re also clerics. They probably are, but we can’t be certain. My guess (and I’d be very surprised if this were wrong) is that only a bunch of low level clerics are left. In other words, it’s going to be up to the Order to win this battle without any help from local clerics. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3748 "2017-08-23T08:22:55Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Doubt that very much. Note the mitre that the cleric they’re draining in [strip 1085](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1085.html) is wearing. The general rule in the strip is that only the chief priest of a temple wears those. And the chief priest is usually the highest, or at least one of the highest, level clerics at that temple. Since the High Priest of Thor is away right now, he was probably the highest level cleric in the city. We don’t see the bodies of the others that were drained there (just their heads and feet), so we can’t be sure they’re also clerics. They probably are, but we can’t be certain. > > My guess (and I’d be very surprised if this were wrong) is that only a bunch of low level clerics are left. In other words, it’s going to be up to the Order to win this battle without any help from local clerics. Consider the memory that Durkon showed in [1086](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1086.html). It looks like there’s about twenty or more clerics assigned to the temple. Maybe Durkon showed this memory to Durkula to make him think all those clerics are normally inside the temple. But it appears only around two very low-power clerics are actually inside (I’m assuming the third dwarf is a soldier). There only appears to be a handful of dwarves killed outside the door and most of them appear to be soldiers. So I think it’s possible there are a lot of clerics unaccounted for. Durkon knows this and Durkula, who thinks they’re all hiding inside the temple, doesn’t. I don’t think any theoretical clerics are going to kill all the vampires. If they did, it would make the presence of the other characters superfluous. But by the same token, if the other characters kill off all the vampires, it would make Durkon’s obvious scheming superfluous. So I think the Law of Narrative says that the clerics, if they exist, will kill off some of the vampires, and Roy and the main characters will fight with Durkula. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3749 "2017-08-23T13:53:49Z")
Man, Thor’s clerics couldn’t take down a single vampire out of the four. They can’t all be as powerful as Durkon (or even the Exarch). What a bunch of chumps 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3750 "2017-08-23T17:33:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Consider the memory that Durkon showed in [1086](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1086.html). It looks like there’s about twenty or more clerics assigned to the temple. Maybe Durkon showed this memory to Durkula to make him think all those clerics are normally inside the temple. True, there are a lot of clerics at the ceremony. Are they all from that temple or did some come from other temples? Who knows. > [@](#): > > But it appears only around two very low-power clerics are actually inside (I’m assuming the third dwarf is a soldier). No, all three are clerics. All clerics (and only clerics) in this strip wear holy symbols around their necks. All three of those are wearing them. One is clutching hers; she’s the one who did a Turn Undead in the panel above. The other two cast the Searing Light and Daylight spells. > [@](#): > > There only appears to be a handful of dwarves killed outside the door and most of them appear to be soldiers. So I think it’s possible there are a lot of clerics unaccounted for. Durkon knows this and Durkula, who thinks they’re all hiding inside the temple, doesn’t. We don’t see the bodies of any of those victims except the head cleric’s. We just see one or two heads and some feet. So we don’t really know what they are, although there were at least four victims in addition to the head cleric. They may be more clerics; they may be something else. I thought at the time that not showing the bodies was because there was going to be some big reveal, but nothing happened. Perhaps some kind of reveal is still to come. However, I’m certain there’s not going to be any higher level clerics in that temple at this time. The Order wouldn’t have had that kind of greeting if there were. There may be other higher level clerics elsewhere in the town, though. > [@](#): > > I don’t think any theoretical clerics are going to kill all the vampires. If they did, it would make the presence of the other characters superfluous. But by the same token, if the other characters kill off all the vampires, it would make Durkon’s obvious scheming superfluous. So I think the Law of Narrative says that the clerics, if they exist, will kill off some of the vampires, and Roy and the main characters will fight with Durkula. Can’t really argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3751 "2017-08-23T17:47:04Z")
Is casting _Daylight_ against a vampire even worth anything? The spell description (3.5e) says: > [@](#): > > Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by bright light. That’s ignoring the _Protection From Daylight_ spell Durkon has. I was originally wondering if the _Daylight_ spell specifically mentioned damage to vampires which I would consider a specific effect and thus something that would over ride a general spell protecting you from actual sunlight. But the spell description seems to go in the opposite direction making me wonder if it’s effective against any vampires, _Protection_ or no. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3752 "2017-08-23T18:12:18Z")
Probably not. But we’ve already seen that knowledge of vampires isn’t widespread, and to three low-level flunkies, it might have seemed like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3753 "2017-08-23T18:16:53Z")
From what I can tell, not in rules as written. But I could see an argument that it should be able to bother them the same way it would anyone else if a bright light just suddenly appeared in front of you. You know, making you have to squint for a bit and maybe delay you for a bit. Not that the spell says it does that in the rules as written. It’s more a verisimilitude thing. Why wouldn’t a bright light appearing right in front of you affect you at all? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3754 "2017-08-23T18:18:19Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Is casting _Daylight_ against a vampire even worth anything? The spell description (3.5e) says: > That’s ignoring the _Protection From Daylight_ spell Durkon has. I was originally wondering if the _Daylight_ spell specifically mentioned damage to vampires which I would consider a specific effect and thus something that would over ride a general spell protecting you from actual sunlight. But the spell description seems to go in the opposite direction making me wonder if it’s effective against any vampires, _Protection_ or no. I agree with Chronos that it’s probably just panicky noobs with limited spells trying to fend off vampires they’ve only heard of in legends. But the full description of daylight notes that it’s not even an attack you could launch at someone, you touch an object and the object then glows. It’s not a ray attack like shown in the strip. It’s probably just artiistic license. That said, the description also includes the line: > [@](#): > > The object touched sheds light as bright as full daylight in a 60-foot radius, and dim light for an additional 60 feet beyond that. Creatures that take penalties in bright light also take them while within the radius of this magical light. Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by bright light. The “penalties” part might still affect vampires, even if it’s not doing them damage. EDIT: The description for vampires includes: "Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action " which would be quite handy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3755 "2017-08-23T19:06:35Z")
[Daylight](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/daylight.htm) isn’t a ray attack, but [Searing Light](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/searingLight.htm) is. The wavery stuff at the bottom of the panel is probably the Turn Undead, the ray is the Searing Light, and the general glow is the Daylight. Meanwhile, the [Glyph of Warding](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm) appears to be a blast glyph dealing electric damage (appropriate for Thor), probably about 2d8 or maybe 3d8 assuming that it was cast by the night crew we see here. I’d be curious to see if Haley triggers the glyphs, given that she (supposedly) converted to Thor-worship. And yes, non-Thor-worshipers is a valid trigger for a glyph. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3756 "2017-08-23T21:19:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One of the clerics refer to the group as the assistant overnight caretaker acolytes. Basically, these guys are the night shift. Which in most organizations, means the guys at the bottom of the experience ladder. > > Durkula and his crew struck in the middle of the night (which makes sense with them being vampires). The temple only had its minimal night shift staff on duty. > > If such is the case, it may offer a hint at Durkon’s plan. He knew that the strongest clerics were off-duty - so they’re presumably still alive somewhere in the city. Durkon may be steering the vampires into an ambush. I just went back and read more carefully, and notice one more thing. They’re not just the nightshift… They’re the assistants of the night shift. So that suggests to me that the stronger ones on the night shift were taken out. And, yes, that there is a dayshift somewhere else. However, being Thor’s clerics, I’d guess they were as likely drunk as asleep, and thus maybe not much help until well after the fight begins. Assuming you are right about Durkon’s plan, then they will almost certainly show up at a point to turn the tide of the battle when all hope seems lost. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3757 "2017-08-24T02:57:16Z")
And the assistant acolytes, at that. Though I do wonder about the hierarchy of a church that still considers a fifth-level cleric an “assistant acolyte”. That may be pretty puny compared to where the Order is now, but fifth level is high enough to start making something of a mark on the world. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3758 "2017-08-24T03:28:51Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I agree with Chronos that it’s probably just panicky noobs with limited spells trying to fend off vampires they’ve only heard of in legends. > > But the full description of daylight notes that it’s not even an attack you could launch at someone, you touch an object and the object then glows. It’s not a ray attack like shown in the strip. It’s probably just artiistic license. > > That said, the description also includes the line: > > > [@](#): > > > > The object touched sheds light as bright as full daylight in a 60-foot radius, and dim light for an additional 60 feet beyond that. Creatures that take penalties in bright light also take them while within the radius of this magical light. Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by bright light. > > The “penalties” part might still affect vampires, even if it’s not doing them damage. > > EDIT: The description for vampires includes: "Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action " which would be quite handy. Vampires don’t take penalties in “bright” light, though - they take penalties in _sun_light. The creatures the spell is referring to are things that are unaccustomed to bright lights, usually because they spend most of their lives underground, in total or near-total darkness. Drow, for example, or some species of orcs and dwarves. Shine a Maglite in a vampire’s eyes, he’s going to be mildly annoyed. Shine a Maglite in a drow’s eyes, and you’ve practically crippled him. Conversely, a blindfold removes most of the penalties a drow suffers in direct sunlight, but none of the penalties a vampire suffers. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3759 "2017-08-26T03:54:11Z")
[1094: Face Time](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1094.html) Elan is about to step on the ward and be zapped, just like Roy was last strip. Probably happen between pages, though. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3760 "2017-08-26T04:07:48Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > [1094: Face Time](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1093.html) > > Elan is about to step on the ward and be zapped, just like Roy was last strip. Probably happen between pages, though. Unfortunately, you linked to the previous comic. (I wondered why the link was gray.) I’d post the right one, but people can easily just click next until a mod fixes it. (Though you’ll have to report it.) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/3761 "2017-08-26T04:13:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Unfortunately, you linked to the previous comic. (I wondered why the link was gray.) Reported. That’s what I get for having tabs with both strips up at the same time. Went to the wrong one to copy the url. Hopefully a kindly mod will have mercy on me. I guess Elan now has a breath weapon for the upcoming battle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=187) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=189)