# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 212
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4222 "2018-05-07T22:50:54Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > But if it were the equivalent of a Greater Magic Fang, it could give him as much as a +5. At +1 every four levels, you’d have to be level 20 to knock out a +5 effect and I’m sure Stickworld doesn’t have any level 20 druids. I’d be surprised if the effect was higher than +3 since even +4 means a level 16-19 druid banging out potions that wind up in the dwarven stash. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4223 "2018-05-07T23:18:36Z")
In 3.5 edition, there’s no difference between a +1 and a +5 in overcoming DR. A magic weapon is a magic weapon. On the other hand, to overcome a vampire’s damage reduction, a weapon needs to be both silver and magical, so unless the Scruffinator has been eating too many [20-pound tubs of cake frosting](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html), his natural weapons would still be inadequate. EDIT: I’d forgotten who Mr. Scruffy’s former [del]owner[/del]valet was. Maybe he _had_ been getting into the cake frosting, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4224 "2018-05-07T23:20:00Z")
Oh, and this strip didn’t go at all the way I expected. I was expecting Durkon to recognize Hilgya before Not-Durkon did, and for Not-Durkon to have to root around through more memories (which he would completely misinterpret, from not understanding love) to see who she was. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4225 "2018-05-08T00:12:32Z")
It brings up an interesting point in Durkon’s world view. How much more outrage is there in watching the Helspawn kill _his_ baby opposed to the basic outrage of watching an innocent baby being killed at all. Although, thinking about it some more, If the Helspawn truly wanted to torture Durkon he would order Hands-off of the kid, just so it doesn’t die in battle. I wonder if that’s the leverage being referenced in the final panel. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4226 "2018-05-08T00:24:54Z")
There has to be some provision for the fate of dead babies. And besides, the kid is certainly _in_ the battle, and making the best effort he’s capable of at participating (Tunn unn deh!). It’s not his fault that he’s completely ineffective in his efforts. I’d say he counts as “honorable”. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4227 "2018-05-08T00:28:46Z")
You guys misunderstood. I said “overcome” not “bypass” the DR. That is, causing damage after the DR is subtracted. I knew he doesn’t have silver claws. But I did miss the word Greater there. So cat claws do 1 or 2 damage (I’m guessing) plus 3 for GMF. That isn’t enough. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4228 "2018-05-08T00:39:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There has to be some provision for the fate of dead babies. Someone asked Rich about what exactly qualified Eric for LG heaven, and he said something along the lines of, “Okay, then, let’s say there’s a spiritual umbilical cord that connects the baby to the mother and the baby just ends up where the mother is.” ---
**Author:** ![Gretchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8edcca/32.png) [@Gretchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gretchion)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4229 "2018-05-11T14:00:17Z")
[1121](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1121.html) is up! ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4230 "2018-05-11T16:01:22Z")
> [@Gretchion](#): > > [1121](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1121.html) is up! “As smart as you are, plus two points”. I will be using that more often in conversations from now on! So, since the length of the memory is not related to real time, what could Durkon’s gambit be? He can’t put Durkula to sleep by being boring, can he? ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4231 "2018-05-11T16:27:25Z")
Actually, vampires are immune to sleep effects, aren’t they? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4232 "2018-05-11T16:37:42Z")
Distraction? A story reveal about Hel? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4233 "2018-05-11T18:03:55Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Distraction? > > A story reveal about Hel? Yeah, I can only guess something that’ll shake the vampire’s resolve. Although I can’t imagine what that would be since it’s not as though the spirit has any real connections to the mortal world. At least Malkan had a vampire existence where he made friends and such. Durkon’s vampire spirit has been nothing but “Let’s end the world” since day one. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4234 "2018-05-11T19:14:19Z")
I like the greatly increased pace that Burlew’s been updating the comic. That said, it feels reading the last two strips like a monkey wrench’s been thrown into the plot. We finally have the next confrontation between the High Priest of Hel and the Order, get to the point where, among other things, Roy’s going to use his family weapon in all its undead-spraying glory and a 16th level Evoker will think of some spell to use besides Magic Missile, and instead break away for what-looks-like-it’ll-be a multiple strip interlude between Durkon and his vampire master. I don’t get it. And we know that this in all likelihood won’t be the last fight between the vamps and the Order, as they still have to get to the ex-Exarch’s before he dominates the Dwarven Council. I know that the author’s stated publicly that OOTS isn’t a plot-driven story anymore, and that we’ll be disappointed if that’s what we expect from future installments, but these constant flashbacks through Durkon’s life, while somewhat interesting, kind of jar the whole flow of the story, IMHO. I mean, Durkon’s life, and what we learn about Dwarven society, is somewhat interesting, but how are these memories supposed to affect the world outside of Durkon’s head? They must be affecting Greg in some way, or he’d never have made the deal with Durkon for Durkon to stop showing him these memories but _how_ are they affecting him? What’s Durkon’s plan in all this? It’s looked like he’s had one under his beard this whole time, but what is it? It just reminds me too much, I guess, of the interminable interlude on the airship: why are we learning all of this historical stuff about Durkon? What’s the point? This is coming off more bitterly than I intended—I am enjoying seeing Durkon’s memories—it’s just annoying to break away from an interesting fight to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4235 "2018-05-11T19:23:33Z")
Two stretch-guesses for the memory: 1. In some way, is there going to be a memory that demonstrates that this complex isn’t a public place that a vampire can enter freely? I really doubt this one, but it’s my super-stretch guess. 2. Will the memory involve the brandishing of a holy symbol? A slightly less stretch of a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4236 "2018-05-11T19:32:52Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I know that the author’s stated publicly that OOTS isn’t a plot-driven story anymore Wait, what? It seems entirely plot driven versus “joke a day” stuff. Am I misunderstanding you? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4237 "2018-05-11T19:55:05Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I like the greatly increased pace that Burlew’s been updating the comic. Enjoy it while it lasts, which by previous experience should be about 3 weeks or so. He just got done with a major project (the new book) and then will devote most of his time to writing the main story. But he’ll get involved in the next project (he still has several left from the Kickstarter) and start devoting most time to that. We saw an extreme example of this last year. For about 3 months he spent most time on the O-Chul story and the updates to the main story really lagged. Then he got done with that in late May or early June and we got about 10 or 12 weeks of main story with updates every 3 or 4 days. > [@](#): > > It just reminds me too much, I guess, of the interminable interlude on the airship: why are we learning all of this historical stuff about Durkon? What’s the point? Perhaps the real story of this arc/book is not the Order fighting but rather the internal struggle between Durkon and Durkula. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4238 "2018-05-11T20:00:27Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Wait, what? It seems entirely plot driven versus “joke a day” stuff. Am I misunderstanding you? Same question, though I’ll throw in that it’s also clearly not slice of life. The whole thing is driven by plot–what Hel is going to do, then presumably followed by getting back on the main overarching plot of the gates. Plus he says he wants the comic to be good in book form, and there’s nothing worse than a story comic that loses the plot before the end. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4239 "2018-05-11T20:05:58Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Wait, what? It seems entirely plot driven versus “joke a day” stuff. Am I misunderstanding you? Burlew’s made a few comments in the OOTS forums (which I can’t quickly find, or I’d cite for you), in response to forumite bitching about the pace of the story, to the effect that his story isn’t driven by the overall plot so much as it is a vehicle to explore how these characters develop and grow. I agree, it hasn’t been joke a day driven since before strip 100. I think the storytelling style usually works—after all we’re here, all these years later discussing it, right?—but there are times where I wish he’d just get to the point already. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4240 "2018-05-11T20:14:16Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > …Perhaps the real story of this arc/book is not the Order fighting but rather the internal struggle between Durkon and Durkula. Thanks for breaking out the update frequency vs other projects on his plate. I think you’ve got the right of it, and I won’t therefore get used this update schedule. Too bad. As to your quote, I see that, and we are learning a lot about how Durkon used to live, and these insights will help establish what he, Hilgya and Kudzu are going to do after this time in Firmament, but IIRC, it’s Word of God that a trapped soul can’t free themselves or regain control of the body while the vampire spirit is running the show. Durkon can get mad and struggle all he wants, and we can admire the strength and tenacity of his seemingly futile struggle, as we did during O-Chul’s captivity, but I don’t know how this will help Durkon should he ever get Resurrected. (Indeed, will he even remember any of this when he comes back? Or will it be a hazy mist, like most of Roy’s memories of the afterlife were to him when he returned?) ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4241 "2018-05-11T20:27:19Z")
The Burlew comment that I drew from to make my point about the plot is [here](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14813005&postcount=89). It doesn’t say what I mistakenly remembered it saying, but it did have these lines: > [@](#): > > Likewise, the setting is not the protagonist. What happens to the world is only important because the protagonists are the sort of people who care about what happens to the world. If Team Evil or the Linear Guild kills the entire Order of the Stick and then takes the Gate only to find that it does not do what they thought it did…how does that help the Order of the Stick? They will still be dead, and the story is about them. The Linear Guild is not a threat because they will do something bad with the Gate; they are a threat because they will kill the Order of the Stick to do it. At the end of Star Wars, one does not care that the Death Star is about to blow up Yavin 4; one cares that the Death Star is about to kill the protagonists, some of whom happen to be on Yavin 4. > > If one does not care about the protagonists or antagonists and is not emotionally invested in their struggles—whether those struggles are external or internal, relevant to the MacGuffin plot or not—and all one cares about is the resolution of the MacGuffin chase, then you will almost certainly be bored with a lot of the material I’m producing. And more importantly, I won’t care. The Snarl plot is part of the armature upon which I hang the characters’ conflicts; it is not the whole of the story. Which isn’t the same as saying that Plot Doesn’t Matter anymore. Though in a later [post](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14839129&postcount=110) in that thread, he does say that the story is more about character development in the face of a world-defining threat, rather than how the characters go about fighting that threat. Anyway, that’s the quote and thread that I was thinking of when I made my comment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=211) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=213)