# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 228
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4542 "2018-07-29T07:50:06Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > The higher level resurrect doesn’t require a body. You still have to kill the undead version, first though. Remember that actual gods are in play now. If Thor or Odin (or Loki) eventually want to thank the Order for saving the world, they can resurrect whoever they want, however they want. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4543 "2018-07-29T08:32:28Z")
Hmm. Certainly didn’t see that one coming. It’s pretty neat - reminds me of Carpe Jugulum’s _I ain’t been vampired, you’ve been Weatherwaxed !_ end twist. It’s not really Durkula having a deus ex machina crisis of conscience so much as neatly going into the mechanics of being a creature summoned/created with an adult mind that never had to go through anything an adult had to go through to become an adult. It’s neat. Also, neat reverse twist if you think about it : vampires being all cruel for the sake of cruelty are just beings with all the emotional depth and tools of… children. Who are assholes. I _really_ like that part :). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4544 "2018-07-29T11:53:07Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > OK, given the combination of > > i Hel’s hubris > ii The non-standard vamping spell > iii Greg being tricked into asking for more than he would normally take at a time > iv Durkon fuckin’ Thundershield. > > I’m warming to this plot development. Dude, his middle name isn’t “fuckin’,” it’s Allotrope. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4545 "2018-07-29T13:36:54Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > The higher level resurrect doesn’t require a body. You still have to kill the undead version, first though. I don’t think that will happen. First, Burlow has said he doesn’t like true resurrection. (or so I read in this thread.) Second, based on the prophecy, we don’t know that Durkon will survive. And I don’t think Durkon needs to survive. An honorable death and an afterlife with Thor would be a perfectly satisfying ending. What Durkon DOES need to do is to help save the world. But he can do that without being resurrected. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4546 "2018-07-29T13:44:37Z")
So, what amulet is Belkar wearing again? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4547 "2018-07-29T13:53:26Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > So, what amulet is Belkar wearing again? Protection from evil, (He’s still evil that’s why it hurts him whilst using it.) One of the effects is apparantly immunity to domination. Just typing that sentence I had a thought that at some time in the future he’ll activate the amulet and _it won’t hurt._ He probably won’t notice until several strips later when whatever enemy they’re facing is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4548 "2018-07-29T15:28:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Dude, his middle name isn’t “fuckin’,” it’s Allotrope. Same thing. Burlew just didn’t translate it from the original Dwarven. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4549 "2018-07-29T16:31:03Z")
That’s actually a significant expansion in the corpus of human knowledge of Dwarven. So now we know the meanings of “Baruk khazad! Khazad ai-menu!” _and_ “Allotrope”. For clarity on dead-bringing-back spells: Raise Dead is 5th level, has a time limit measured in days, costs 5000 GP worth of diamonds, requires an intact body that was never undead, and leaves the target with only 1 HP (though they can be healed up higher as normal), and costs them a level. That’s what Sigdi got for the Five. Lots of clerics can cast that, including Durkon at the start of the strip. Resurrection is 7th level and costs 10k worth of diamonds, but it requires only a small portion of remains (the pile of dust left by a Disintegrate spell is explicitly said to be enough, so presumably so is the pile of dust from a destroyed vampire), has a time limit measured in decades, and leaves the subject at full health. It still costs them a level, though. This is what Durkon used on Roy. There are known to be other casters high enough to cast it (probably all of the attendees at the Godsmoot, for instance), but they’re much harder to come by (the Godsmoot attendees are likely a significant chunk of the total). True Resurrection is 9th level and costs 25k worth of diamonds, but it doesn’t even need any remains at all, just a name or other unique identifier, and doesn’t cost the subject a level. Redcloak is capable of casting this, but he may well be the only caster in the entire world who can. This is the one that Burlew especially doesn’t like, because it wrecks stories: One of the purposes served by Durkon’s vampirizarion, narratively, is that it prevents him from getting high enough level to cast it. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4550 "2018-07-29T16:45:01Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Protection from evil, (He’s still evil that’s why it hurts him whilst using it.) One of the effects is apparantly immunity to domination. > > Just typing that sentence I had a thought that at some time in the future he’ll activate the amulet and _it won’t hurt._ He probably won’t notice until several strips later when whatever enemy they’re facing is dead. I was going to say that the “some time in the future” you mentioned might be now. And that he’s just really, really pissed at Durkon, but not in any actual pain. But it doesn’t look pleasant for him in that first panel when Scruffy kicks his amulet on. So I guess we’re going to have to wait for that particular plot twist. I’m with you though; I do think it’s coming. He doesn’t have very much in-game time for it either. ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4551 "2018-07-29T17:10:35Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I don’t think that will happen. First, Burlow has said he doesn’t like true resurrection. (or so I read in this thread.) Second, based on the prophecy, we don’t know that Durkon will survive. And I don’t think Durkon needs to survive. An honorable death and an afterlife with Thor would be a perfectly satisfying ending. What Durkon DOES need to do is to help save the world. But he can do that without being resurrected. _shrug_ all I was doing was answering the question “how do you rez someone with no remains?” not making any predictions. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4552 "2018-07-29T17:28:34Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I don’t think that will happen. First, Burlow has said he doesn’t like true resurrection. (or so I read in this thread.) Second, based on the prophecy, we don’t know that Durkon will survive. And I don’t think Durkon needs to survive. An honorable death and an afterlife with Thor would be a perfectly satisfying ending. What Durkon DOES need to do is to help save the world. But he can do that without being resurrected. The prophecy said that Durkon will return bringing death & destruction – that has already been fulfilled. I assume that Durkon will be with the Order for the last act because the Order isn’t going to defeat Team Evil without a cleric and I don’t see Burlow switching out Durkon for Hilgya in the final stretch. True Rez is not an option. It simply doesn’t exist in Stickworld per Mr. Giant: > [@](#): > > And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as “not available” to everyone, and I don’t want to waste any panel time explaining why. (I realize that Haley and Belkar reference it so maybe it exists on paper but Burlow is never going to use it in the comic so it doesn’t exist in practice) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4553 "2018-07-29T20:31:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For clarity on dead-bringing-back spells: Raise Dead is 5th level, has a time limit measured in days, costs 5000 GP worth of diamonds, requires an intact body that was never undead, and leaves the target with only 1 HP (though they can be healed up higher as normal), and costs them a level. That’s not quite correct. A creature affected by _Raise Dead_ returns with 1 HP per level and loses 2 Con instead of a level (or HD) if it was originally 1st level (or 1HD). I don’t read the undead restriction the same as you: I read it as the creature must not currently be undead but agree that the wording is ambiguous. [SRD cite](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4554 "2018-07-29T20:36:40Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I don’t read the undead restriction the same as you: I read it as the creature must not currently be undead but agree that the wording is ambiguous. > > [SRD cite](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm). > [@](#): > > A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. If that first sentence is meant to refer to creatures that are currently undead, then the second sentence is redundant. The grouping with death effects is also significant - both death effects and creating undead involve infusing a body with negative energy, so the apparent intent there is that bodies that have been infused with negative energy at some point are immune to _Raise Dead_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4555 "2018-07-29T20:47:04Z")
I forgot about the 1 HP per level (it varies between editions, and in any event the point is that you want to get that person some regular healing pronto), and I left off the bit about Con loss if the subject was 1st level for the sake of simplicity, since most folks who get raised have a few levels on them. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4556 "2018-07-29T21:22:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If that first sentence is meant to refer to creatures that are currently undead, then the second sentence is redundant. I disagree. The second part refers to specific spells with the **Death** descriptor, like _[Death Knell](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathKnell.htm)_, _[Slay Living](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm)_, _[Symbol of Death](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolOfDeath.htm)_, and _[Power Word Kill](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/powerWordKill.htm)_. Infusing a body with negative energy is simply not relevant. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4557 "2018-07-29T23:05:10Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Protection from evil, (He’s still evil that’s why it hurts him whilst using it.) One of the effects is apparantly immunity to domination. More specifically, a [Cloak Clasp of Protection from Evil](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0969.html). Activated by rubbing, which Scruffy’s pawing counted as. It’s the same as if someone cast [Protection from Evil](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm) on him. The mental control is only suppressed; if he turns off the clasp, the domination will resume. However, he just offed the vampire who dominated him, so no new orders will be forthcoming. The rules don’t say that the dominator must still be in existence, so dusting the vampire may or may not undo the Dominate Person effect (depends on how Burlew wants to treat that effect). Note that this isn’t a standard item and the pain to Evil persons using it isn’t standard for that spell. While the pain was a disadvantage in previous uses, it helped this time, since it woke him up from being knocked unconscious. > [@](#): > > Just typing that sentence I had a thought that at some time in the future he’ll activate the amulet and _it won’t hurt._ He probably won’t notice until several strips later when whatever enemy they’re facing is dead. The lack of pain will be a sign that his alignment has changed from Evil to Neutral. Upthread, I predicted Mr Scruffy would activate it, but wasn’t the only one to do so. Several other people did on the GitP forum, although I’d either hadn’t read their posts or had forgotten about them when I made my prediction. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4558 "2018-07-29T23:25:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The prophecy said that Durkon will return bringing death & destruction – that has already been fulfilled. _snip_ Actually, the prophecy said "He will bring death and destruction **to us all"** emphasis mine. So it _could_ be argued that the only way this prophecy could be fulfilled is with the destruction of the entire dwarf race, or at least the ones in this immediate area. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4559 "2018-07-30T00:50:17Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > Actually, the prophecy said "He will bring death and destruction **to us all"** emphasis mine. So it _could_ be argued that the only way this prophecy could be fulfilled is with the destruction of the entire dwarf race, or at least the ones in this immediate area. I’d say that “To us all” is about the entire dwarf race (Hel’s plan for the dwarf souls) but the prophecy will be avoided, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4560 "2018-07-30T02:13:01Z")
Belkar’s clasp is certainly homebrewed, but there is precedent. In the standard rules, there are some items, like holy weapons, which temporarily inflict a negative level on the user, if the user is of the opposite alignment (the negative level goes away as soon as you stop using it). There’s some speculation that his clasp works the same way. A negative level would certainly hurt, and it’s a decrease in one’s effectiveness at pretty much everything, but at the Order’s level it’s not that significant a decrease (at least, if you only take one: Part of what makes vampires a threat is that they can inflict a whole bunch of negative levels, hence the Death Ward spells to protect against that). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4561 "2018-07-30T02:52:45Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > Actually, the prophecy said "He will bring death and destruction **to us all"** emphasis mine. So it _could_ be argued that the only way this prophecy could be fulfilled is with the destruction of the entire dwarf race, or at least the ones in this immediate area. He can bring death and destruction to us all. That doesn’t mean we will be compelled to accept them when he brings them. It’s not like the prophecy said he will bring down death and destruction _upon_ us all. On an unrelated note, has Mr. Scruffy’s heterochromia and any significance it may have been discussed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=227) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=229)