# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 237
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4722 "2018-08-10T20:52:38Z")
1. HA! 2. So when Minrah mentioned the “fluffiness-to-teeth-gnashing ratio” last strip, she was talking about _literal_ fluffiness? 3. It’s a good thing Durkon decided to walk around to the other side of the ‘tower’ before mentioning the Snarl; Thor would have looked kinda silly if he’d had to twist around and address the back of his heel. 4. Rich is on a _roll_. > [@BigT](#): > > Seeing as people with bodies can apparently directly plane shift into these places, could someone directly plane shift out without needing a body? Consensus is… um… [consensus is nonexistent](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565967-question-Self-Resurrect-using-True-resurrection). > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > There’s a problem of scale, though. Over the last 2 strips it looks like they walk for a few minutes before reaching the tower/ leg. In the splash panel it looks like only a few steps. I think that’s more the limit as to how small the Giant can draw a recognizable figure, rather than literally to scale. Or maybe Thor’s shrinking down to talk to them, the gods we’re seen around mortals don’t seem to always be this large. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4723 "2018-08-10T20:56:56Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Of his right leg. Look at the splash panel, on the fur at the top of Thor’s right boot. Notice anything unusual there? Excellent spot! ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4724 "2018-08-10T21:18:07Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > There’s a problem of scale, though. Over the last 2 strips it looks like they walk for a few minutes before reaching the tower/ leg. In the splash panel it looks like only a few steps. Meh. If you look hard enough you can find those kinds of things in many strips. For example, the [full shadow cast by the Mechane](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0930.html) when it only partially blocked the sun when looking up. That kind of thing never bothered me; it’s just a comic strip, after all. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4725 "2018-08-10T21:24:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Speaking of, the real victim in all this poor Jirix who is no longer the only guy in the comic to [directly chat with his god](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html). Glad you brought up Jirix. If Thor’s position would enable him to Resurrect Durkon without waiting for a clerical spell, wouldn’t you expect the Dark One to have done the same for Jirix? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4726 "2018-08-10T21:44:18Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Of his right leg. Look at the splash panel, on the fur at the top of Thor’s right boot. Notice anything unusual there? I totally missed that. Thanks. And I expect that it’s a sign of how serious the situation is that even Thor is sober. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4727 "2018-08-10T22:37:59Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Glad you brought up Jirix. If Thor’s position would enable him to Resurrect Durkon without waiting for a clerical spell, wouldn’t you expect the Dark One to have done the same for Jirix? Maybe? Although I get the impression that Jirix was raised [within a half hour](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html) or so of his death. Although [Jirix says](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0703.html) he was _Resurrected_ rather than _Raised_ which seems like an odd use of spell levels and, as a cleric, he’d know the difference. Not that I think there’s anything to it, just things you notice when re-reading strips. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4728 "2018-08-11T04:44:57Z")
Oooh. “Because seriously, dude-we need to talk.” Not something I’d think you want to hear from your God. Though I agree with those of you who think it’s now going to be info-dump time, hopefully about the planet in the Rift, and all things Snarl. (Maybe even a clue about the MITD? I still like best of all of the suggestions, Alessan’s idea that it’s a brain-damaged juvenile Zeus. Hopefully the strip ends before we get to see him go through puberty…) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4729 "2018-08-11T13:17:26Z")
I dunno; I don’t think that Zeus would ever say “no girls allowed”, no matter how brain-damaged. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4730 "2018-08-11T14:04:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Seeing as people with bodies can apparently directly plane shift into these places, could someone directly plane shift out without needing a body? > > Or is it that Thor could just give him a new body before he leaves, and then provide him a plane shift out, making everything he gave him in his realm? So, to get a bit geeky on DND. What the gods are and how powerful they are have changed but as they are playing in 3.5 rules, we know a bit more. In that edition, gods are described as all powerful within their domains or in their demesne. In fact, there is nothing they can’t do in their demesne, in terms of willing what they want, how it looks, how they look, etc. When they have a physical form, it’s called an Avatar and that is limited by the form they take. They are usually defined in terms of class levels, hit points, etc., which is why it was thought gods could be killed in the game but that’s usually just their avatar. Even then, it was powerful, with forty to sixty, or more, class levels (when getting twenty was a lot for mortals), high stats and hit points, and special abilities beyond that norm. So, could Thor raise Durken and send him back? Yes. Easily. Any god could. Why don’t they? It would start a war among the gods and that could destroy everything. So there is a general agreement that they gods only directly interfere when their domain is in peril. Otherwise, they have to use clerics to enact their will. In theory, even then, they have free will and can refuse to do it but then would lose their god granted powers and if they were that powerful, or that long of a worshipper, why would they refuse? So, in non stick world, a god could do this but would have to have a reason for directly interfering that the other gods agree with so they don’t also do something and it escalates. Or at least enough agree that they can force the rest to agree. At least, that’s how I understood it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4731 "2018-08-11T14:52:28Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > (Maybe even a clue about the MITD? I still like best of all of the suggestions, Alessan’s idea that it’s a brain-damaged juvenile Zeus. Hopefully the strip ends before we get to see him go through puberty…) Actually, what I said is that the trauma and the damage he took at the hands of the Snarl made him mentally regress to childhood (as well as take a horrific form). I didn’t say he actually became a child. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4732 "2018-08-11T16:59:21Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Actually, what I said is that the trauma and the damage he took at the hands of the Snarl made him mentally regress to childhood (as well as take a horrific form). I didn’t say he actually became a child. Thank you for clarifying your earlier statement, but then I guess I’m not as much in favor of your guess for the MITD. I’ve unfortunately dealt with several mentally retarded individuals, who nonetheless were sexually mature and had great difficulty comporting their drives with social decorum. It’s therefore hard for me to think of the MITD as a sexually mature Zeus where we haven’t seen any evidence of him acting out in that way. Of course, Burlew may not choose to go there, but if he did make the MITD Zeus, it’s hard to think of the god absent one of his signature attributes. Bummer, because otherwise your guess really fits what we know of the MITD: shape-shifting, great knowledge and charisma, immense strength, etc… And it sounds like the sort of ‘tiny detail’----that Zeus’s body wasn’t shown with X’s in the eyes when the Snarl ran amok in their pantheon, during the Crayons of Time retrospective—that Burlew loves to throw at his audience. I wanted to think he was a juvenile Titan, but even adult Titans don’t have the powers he’s already shown. Wish, in particular. I can’t put a finger on why, but the guesses at the GITP forums like Protean (just call it a Shoggoth already) and Hagamementkmeosua, however you spell it, just leave me cold. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4733 "2018-08-11T17:22:16Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Thank you for clarifying your earlier statement, but then I guess I’m not as much in favor of your guess for the MITD. I’ve unfortunately dealt with several mentally retarded individuals, who nonetheless were sexually mature and had great difficulty comporting their drives with social decorum. It’s therefore hard for me to think of the MITD as a sexually mature Zeus where we haven’t seen any evidence of him acting out in that way. True, but bear in mind that their sexual drives mostly came from their own hormones and whatnot. That shouldn’t be a factor for a shapeshifter OR a god. What I mean, is that maybe he’s also a child, physically - but only because he created a body for himself that suits his childlike mind. He’ll grow up when his mind heals, not before. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4734 "2018-08-12T03:12:28Z")
Personally, I still favor the “son of Godzilla” hypothesis. The speculators at the GitP forums have officially rejected that on copyright grounds, but I think that the case for that is weak, and he fits all of what we’ve seen so far. Well, almost: Monster-san is familiar with the Astral Plane, and I don’t think that fits. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4735 "2018-08-12T04:45:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I still favor the “son of Godzilla” hypothesis. The speculators at the GitP forums have officially rejected that on copyright grounds, but I think that the case for that is weak, and he fits all of what we’ve seen so far. Well, almost: Monster-san is familiar with the Astral Plane, and I don’t think that fits. I’m not seeing it. How about when the MITD did the whole [“Escape”](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html) thing with O-Chul and Vaarsuvious? A kaiju wouldn’t have that kind of power but a god would. There’s also the issue of size; most of a kaiju’s power is based on their enormous size. But we can see that the MITD is basically human sized. A kaiju that’s only two meters tall isn’t going to be all that impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4736 "2018-08-12T12:11:06Z")
There’s an actual movie with the Son of Godzilla where he is indeed about human-sized (but still immensely powerful), and does in fact have the power to teleport his friends. Mind you, I’m not claiming that kaiju movies make sense in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4737 "2018-08-12T12:48:20Z")
Interesting, but from a dramatic point of view, the mystery has been building up for so long that it can’t be someone to whom the first reaction readers will have is “Who?”. It’s like how the solution to a murder mystery can’t be some guy the author’s never mentioned before - it has to be someone who’s existence has already been established, someone who’s already part of the story. Otherwise it doesn’t work. Or in other words, what’s better - “Luke, I am your father”; or “Luke, I am Archibald Dunwittle of Rigel 6. You don’t know me.”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4738 "2018-08-12T13:15:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Interesting, but from a dramatic point of view, the mystery has been building up for so long that it can’t be someone to whom the first reaction readers will have is “Who?”. It’s like how the solution to a murder mystery can’t be some guy the author’s never mentioned before - it has to be someone who’s existence has already been established, someone who’s already part of the story. Otherwise it doesn’t work. > > Or in other words, what’s better - “Luke, I am your father”; or “Luke, I am Archibald Dunwittle of Rigel 6. You don’t know me.”? I’m now picturing General Tarquin delivering his last words right around when he gets torn apart by the MiTD, right around when it reveals it’s a hagunemnon or whatever: he’d gasp that it simply _can’t_ be, because it’d be so narratively unsatisfying; the solution has to be a creature that’s already been discussed in-story! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4739 "2018-08-12T16:37:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There’s an actual movie with the Son of Godzilla where he is indeed about human-sized (but still immensely powerful), and does in fact have the power to teleport his friends. Mind you, I’m not claiming that kaiju movies make sense in the first place. But it seems like cheating in the narrative if you make the MITD an extraordinary example of whatever type of thing it is. You could just as easily argue that it’s a hobbit with super-strength and teleportation powers. I think the narrative demands that when the MITD’s identity is revealed, it should be immediately obvious that it has the powers it’s displayed. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4740 "2018-08-12T18:27:58Z")
I’m betting it’s Berlew under the umbrella. Who has more power than the DM/narrator? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/4741 "2018-08-13T21:28:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But it seems like cheating in the narrative if you make the MITD an extraordinary example of whatever type of thing it is. You could just as easily argue that it’s a hobbit with super-strength and teleportation powers. > > I think the narrative demands that when the MITD’s identity is revealed, it should be immediately obvious that it has the powers it’s displayed. Or obvious after looking it up in the relevant Monster Manual/work of fiction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=236) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=238)