# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 261
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5202 "2018-09-29T19:40:31Z")
Oh, yeah. Xykon has to go down. But think of the Drama! Betrayal! Sacrifice! Unexpected Twists! Death! Destruction! Salvation. And Elan gets his happy ending. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5203 "2018-09-30T01:15:26Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Oh, yeah. Xykon has to go down. But think of the Drama! Betrayal! Sacrifice! Unexpected Twists! Death! Destruction! Salvation. And Elan gets his happy ending. Yes! Book 7 is going to be the best ever, when it comes out in time for the 2025 holiday season. ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5204 "2018-09-30T01:20:42Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > That’d be a hell of a twist, wouldn’t it? Instead of beating the bad guys by force, they find a way to peacefully settle their disagreements? A prediction I made to myself a while ago (when I read the prequels) was that they’d make peace with Redcloak, off Xykon, and V would serve as the needed wizard in the ritual (Redcloak having convinced the party that the purpose was worthy…) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5205 "2018-09-30T05:44:38Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I just thought of a good reason why the “destroy this world and build a new 4-color world” idea won’t work. Without some kind of agreement between the Dark One and the three pantheons, they’ll just end up making another 4-color Snarl. Which will likely combine with the current Snarl to make a 5-color one, so they’ll be worse off than before. But with an agreement, there’s no need to destroy the world and risk all that, since there’s a way to patch the current world. I don’t think so (as I’ve said). Even if the three big pantheons reach and agreement with the Dark One, the current universe is a three-color production. From what Thor is saying, the four-color Snarl can’t be permanently contained by a three-color universe. Thor seems to feel that a four-color universe could contain the Snarl indefinitely. Although I feel he’s hedging on that issue which leads me to believe a five-color universe might actually be needed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5206 "2018-09-30T06:16:06Z")
One thing I don’t understand is why the gods are apparently making no effort to talk to Xykon. After all, from everything we’ve seen Xykon is only participating in this whole plot because he mistakenly believes he can use the Snarl’s power for his own. Redcloak has made it clear (and the gods are confirming) that this isn’t true. The Snarl can’t be controlled; it can only be released at which point it will destroy everything, including the people who released it. That means Xykon is going to gain nothing from this plot, a point which Redcloak has been concealing from him. So why aren’t the gods tipping off Xykon and letting him know this? The most likely result is that Xykon would attack Redcloak out of anger, which would end the current threat to the gates. Even in the unlikely event that Xykon just quit and left, that still would put a halt of Redcloak’s plan for the several years as he had to go out and recruit another epic level magic user. I realize getting this information to Xykon wouldn’t be easy. But it should be something three entire patheons can accomplish. And there’s no apparent divine law forbidding them from telling Xykon; plenty of other mortals already know it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5207 "2018-09-30T07:27:06Z")
I assume it would also end the plan to talk to the Dark One. It’s not like Xykon cares about that. He’s gonna either use or get rid of the red cloak. Then no way to make a new world with four colors. Edit: It seems the cloak is necessary to be high priest. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5208 "2018-09-30T17:57:33Z")
If Xykon finds out he’s been jerked around by Red Cloak for umpteen years, Xykon will massacre Goblintopia. Personally he would get over the setback pretty quickly, but that wouldn’t stop him from going on a rampage. The elimination of Goblintopia would make negotiations with the Dark One more difficult. Also, I’m not certain what the God’s know about Xykon beyond his existence of course. There might be some imperfect information involved. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5209 "2018-09-30T18:01:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think so (as I’ve said). Even if the three big pantheons reach and agreement with the Dark One, the current universe is a three-color production. From what Thor is saying, the four-color Snarl can’t be permanently contained by a three-color universe. Thor seems to feel that a four-color universe could contain the Snarl indefinitely. That’s true that a 4-color world would be better than the 3-color one they currently have. Thor’s idea is to keep patching it up every couple thousand years or so. The problem is getting four pantheons to all cooperate to make one without the conflict that result in the Snarl. Now the three established pantheons have come to agreements to avoid that kind of conflict, but what about the Dark One? He doesn’t trust the other gods (with reason) and I’ll bet some of the other gods don’t trust him. So even if they have some formal agreement with the DO, will everyone trust that the other side will keep that agreement? So how do you build trust? You start with small things that they can do together that won’t be a big deal if conflicts arise. Patching the current world would be such a small project. If all sides cooperate, then move to bigger things. Eventually they may trust each other enough to do a really big project like making an entire world. > [@](#): > > Although I feel he’s hedging on that issue which leads me to believe a five-color universe might actually be needed. Maybe so. But I have a suspicion that they’ll never get to that point and the ultimate solution is not going to be keeping the Snarl locked up. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5210 "2018-09-30T19:24:37Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Maybe so. But I have a suspicion that they’ll never get to that point and the ultimate solution is not going to be keeping the Snarl locked up. I don’t, either, but I still suspect five colors will be necessary. The Snarl still currently eats up anything three colors, and can harm things of four colors. So I suspect only five color entities can go inside of it. I also thought of something else: the Greek myth is that the world was born out of chaos, and the Snarl is chaos. Maybe it formed a world from that chaos. Also, the Greek pantheon includes Gaia, who is the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5211 "2018-09-30T22:20:52Z")
If you’re suggesting that the world inside the rift is Earth, it’s been guessed before, and explicitly denied by Rich Burlew. > **[OOTS #945 - The Discussion Thread - Page 8](https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?331522-OOTS-945-The-Discussion-Thread%2Fpage4&p=17004853)** > > New comic is up. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5212 "2018-09-30T23:05:48Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If Xykon finds out he’s been jerked around by Red Cloak for umpteen years, Xykon will massacre Goblintopia. Personally he would get over the setback pretty quickly, but that wouldn’t stop him from going on a rampage. The elimination of Goblintopia would make negotiations with the Dark One more difficult. > > Also, I’m not certain what the God’s know about Xykon beyond his existence of course. There might be some imperfect information involved. If Xykon found out he can’t rule the world, he’d probably destroy it out of spite. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5213 "2018-09-30T23:44:49Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > If you’re suggesting that the world inside the rift is Earth, it’s been guessed before, and explicitly denied by Rich Burlew. > > [OOTS #945 - The Discussion Thread - Page 8](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?331522-OOTS-945-The-Discussion-Thread/page4&p=17004853#post17004853) That seems to indicate that he reserves “Earth” for the real planet, since he says Earth will never appear in the comic. So, no, by those terms, I am not suggesting that it is Earth. I am, however, suggesting that it will be the new world that will be populated at the end as a replacement for the Stickworld “Earth.” ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5214 "2018-10-01T01:22:51Z")
Or give it to the goblins and similar. They get a planet free of murderous humans and demi-humans and go on their happy way. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5215 "2018-10-01T01:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **BigT** : > > The Snarl still currently eats up anything three colors, and can harm things of four colors. There currently _aren’t_ any things of four colors, other than the Snarl itself. Another point that’s not getting much attention: Even if a new world (or a spot-welded one) would have the same number of colors as Snarly, it wouldn’t have the _same_ four colors. How would a partially-green Snarl interact with a partially-purple prison seal? We don’t know. And probably, neither does Thor, but when you’ve got something genuinely new out of however many billion prior attempts, you really do owe it to yourself to try it out. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5216 "2018-10-01T01:46:03Z")
[Here’s](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) something that may be an uncharacteristic retcon by Burlew: The Snarl _does,_ in fact, have the color purple in its being. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5217 "2018-10-01T04:18:51Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) something that may be an uncharacteristic retcon by Burlew: The Snarl _does,_ in fact, have the color purple in its being. I think that’s reading too much into it. We know that the Eastern Pantheon has been long gone. But we still have goblins, who have green skin. Clearly creatures and other things can appear in a color that wasn’t used in their creation. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5218 "2018-10-01T07:42:14Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) something that may be an uncharacteristic retcon by Burlew: The Snarl _does,_ in fact, have the color purple in its being. If you look at the final frame of that strip you see a member of the Northern pantheon with a yellow glow holding blue threads and a member of the Twelve Gods with a blue glow holding purple threads. So I’m not sure you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5219 "2018-10-01T08:14:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There currently _aren’t_ any things of four colors, other than the Snarl itself I am aware, but that Snarl did destroy the original four-color world. My current theory is that five color beings could actually live within the snarl. They would be more “real” than the Snarl, unlike everything else that has been either less than or equally real. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5220 "2018-10-01T19:44:42Z")
What about the Elven gods? aren’t they a separate quidity? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5221 "2018-10-01T19:51:49Z")
Mortals ascending to godhood is not unheard-of. But before, every time it’s happened, it’s been with the sponsorship of some existing pantheon, and the newly-apotheosed god therefore shares that pantheon’s quiddity. Hence, Dvalin is Northern-yellow, and the Elvish deities are presumably Western-red. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=260) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=262)