# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 270
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5382 "2018-12-14T06:11:12Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Burlew isn’t just making this up as he goes along, you know. He has had the whole plot arc mapped out for some time. He doesn’t promote character because they are popular, or kill them off because they are unpopular. Bandana will become a full time member if and only if the plot requires it. I doubt that’s going to happen. Burlew has said that while he has the overall storyline worked out and knows the ending, he is still filling in the details to get from here to there. And he has said that sometimes he introduces a character with the thought that he will develop the character later and occasionally that doesn’t work out. He cited Kilkil as an example. He introduced the character as Tarquin’s sidekick and figured he’d flesh him out later. But he never came up with any interesting ideas for the character and ended up dropping him. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5383 "2018-12-14T08:47:36Z")
I think it would be really hard for him not to bring Minrah back for something important. Unlike with the others, he’s now committed with her. I do, however, tend to think it will be more of a one off, being back for one big thing she needs to do. And, then, if there’s time, she gets to do those other things she wanted to do. She also could be a source of additional information that Thor and the other gods get later on. But she doesn’t have enough established to become a full party member again–except maybe for one specific battle, like she did before. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5384 "2018-12-14T10:44:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I just don’t see much potential for Minrah as a character in the story. Most of what she would bring to the story is already there. The only thing she would add as new story possibilities is that she’s a low level character. > > Bandana would have brought the fact that she hasn’t been a part of Roy’s group for all this time; she wouldn’t automatically defer to his leadership the way the others (even Belkar) do. It would have shaken Roy out of some of his complacency to have to justify his orders. As noted, sometimes minor characters are location-specific. Minrah is important for what’s going on now in the dwarven lands. It may transpire that she follows the group to the last gate, but more likely she will become the new High Priest of Thor (the others having been vamped or otherwise deaded) and/or has to head to the Godsmoot to convey what will eventually be a “No” vote. Maybe in the long run she will be a love interest for Durkon (particularly given the whole “kids” thing) but not until the situation with Hilgya is resolved. Bandana likewise is critical to the ship-based adventures but she was never going to leave the ship to join the group full-time. > [@](#): > > Miko would have brought the crazy. It would have been interesting to have a good character who was as difficult to work with as an evil character normally would be. It would have demonstrated the difference between alignment and personality. And as a paladin, Miko would have brought a new skill set in. Miko brought all the crazy she needed to, bringing about the inadvertent downfall of Azure City and herself and providing some key character development for Belkar. She did what she needed to do and then died. > [@](#): > > Hilgya is evil but in a different way than Belkar is. Throw in the personal conflict between her and Durkon. And she’s at the right level and in the right place. Yes, we’re not close to being done with Hilgya. She will very likely follow the group to the last gate, but a “sudden but inevitable betrayal” must surely occur at some point. > [@](#): > > Sabine would be a remote possibility. She now has something of a motive if she felt that the group was her best means of seeking revenge for Nale. But the group really doesn’t seem to be heading in that direction; they seem pretty much willing to let Tarquin go and focus on Hel and Xykon. And Sabine is still an agent for the three fiends. I think we might see Sabine again as part of the story but I can’t see her as part of the group. We’re not done with Sabine either. There is still an unresolved Tarquin storyline, and Sabine could very well unexpectedly rescue the Order in order to gain her revenge on Tarquin. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5385 "2018-12-14T12:46:35Z")
Is there any discussion to be had about how some of his most poignant and solemn moments involve the deaths of female characters? (Miko, Therkla, Tsukiko, and Golem Crystal spring to mind.) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5386 "2018-12-14T13:03:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Is there any discussion to be had about how some of his most poignant and solemn moments involve the deaths of female characters? (Miko, Therkla, Tsukiko, and Golem Crystal spring to mind.) Both deaths of Durkon and the death of Roy (“_O buddy Roy_”) were quite poignant too, whereas I’d struggle to call the death of Golem Crystal poignant given that they all just went off to breakfast afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5387 "2018-12-14T13:10:23Z")
While Crystal was thrashing about in the lava, it had me utterly transfixed. There was nothing funny about it. But yes, the immediate cut to brunch did provide some welcome relief. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5388 "2018-12-14T13:34:51Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > A culture grounded on honor and beer is more than a little amusing. It is; YouTube has a lot of examples: “Hold my beer and watch this!” > [@Jeff Foxworthy](#): > > If you’ve ever had to climb a water tower to defend your sister’s honor… You might be a Redneck. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5389 "2018-12-14T15:04:59Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Yes, we’re not close to being done with Hilgya. She will very likely follow the group to the last gate, but a “sudden but inevitable betrayal” must surely occur at some point. Eh, maybe but Loki’s goals align with Thor’s for keeping Stickworld alive and the Snarl sealed off. I guess we could have another Miko-esque betrayal of your deity’s goals for the sake of your own ego but I hope not. > [@](#): > > We’re not done with Sabine either. There is still an unresolved Tarquin storyline, and Sabine could very well unexpectedly rescue the Order in order to gain her revenge on Tarquin. I don’t know if we need to see Tarquin again (maybe though since that rift is open in the desert) but Sabine works for the Directors and we’re absolutely seeing them again. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5390 "2018-12-14T17:56:50Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Both deaths of Durkon and the death of Roy (“_O buddy Roy_”) were quite poignant too, whereas I’d struggle to call the death of Golem Crystal poignant given that they all just went off to breakfast afterwards. There was also Right Eye’s death although that was in a book. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5391 "2018-12-14T17:58:39Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > A culture grounded on honor and beer is more than a little amusing. Honor, beer, and fear of trees. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5392 "2018-12-14T18:09:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > As noted, sometimes minor characters are location-specific. Minrah is important for what’s going on now in the dwarven lands. It may transpire that she follows the group to the last gate, but more likely she will become the new High Priest of Thor (the others having been vamped or otherwise deaded) and/or has to head to the Godsmoot to convey what will eventually be a “No” vote. Maybe in the long run she will be a love interest for Durkon (particularly given the whole “kids” thing) but not until the situation with Hilgya is resolved. I think Minrah was there to remind the readers that stories like this don’t just involve high-level heroes. It’s easy to just focus on the main characters and dismiss everyone else as essentially props. Burlew used Minrah to remind us that low-level characters have agency too. So I really hope that Burlew doesn’t turn Minrah into a love interest for Durkon (and not just because I hate shipping). Turning her into the hero’s girlfriend is just another way of dismissing her. Next thing you know, she’s in a refrigerator. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5393 "2018-12-14T20:12:55Z")
I hope not a girlfriend, but I would assume Minrah will in some capacity help Durkon discover his new “life”. He has just had about as stark of a transformation as is possible. From a dour, confused dwarf who is doggedly, but vaguely following his duty to his God,his cultural principals and his team leader, who really just wanted to get to the point where he died with and got to go home, to literally being reborn as a dude who has a specific divinely mandated quest of ultimate importance, the knowledge he is no longer banished from home and meeting his son he never knew existed. He was always good ol steady Durkon, through all their adventures, never really changed at all, even when he became a vampire thrall. To suddenly, in the space of about 5 combats rounds+ some unnoticed astral period time passage, everything is brand new. That’s gotta weird ya out a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5394 "2018-12-14T20:36:25Z")
I wonder how much time has passed for the OOTS while Durkon was out of action. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5395 "2018-12-14T20:54:57Z")
The death of Nale was also plenty poignant. I think that all that we’re seeing is that death scenes, in general, are poignant, and some of those deaths have been women. Though I will grant that Miko’s tops the list. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5396 "2018-12-14T21:26:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The death of Nale was also plenty poignant. I think that all that we’re seeing is that death scenes, in general, are poignant, and some of those deaths have been women. Ehh. Roy and Nale’s actual deaths were, IMHO, sudden and instantaneous; whereas Miko, Therkla, Tsukiko, and Golem Crystal each took multiple panels to complete.\* We bore witness to their inevitable demises, and to their final words as they crossed over into an undiscovered country from whose bourne no travelers return,\*\* whether they were words of acceptance, regret, confusion, or rage. It’s the intimate observation of their conscious encounter with death that I found so affecting. With Roy’s and Nale’s deaths, the _feels_, if you will, for the most part come from the responses of those who witnessed them. Durkon’s death, I concede, was on the same emotional plane as the women. (ETA: And even that was mitigated by Durkon’s happiness at his inevitable return to the Dwarven Lands.) \*One can argue that Roy’s falling sequence constitutes multiple panels; but IMHO, those were just an excellently-crafted reproduction of a “bit” that we have seen in countless cartoons. \*\*unless you’re an inhabitant of the Stick-verse, of course. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5397 "2018-12-14T21:46:47Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I wonder how much time has passed for the OOTS while Durkon was out of action. At least 1 hour. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5398 "2018-12-14T22:50:54Z")
I wonder how all this is going to affect the prophecy about Belkar? We’re getting very close to the date. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5399 "2018-12-14T23:05:40Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I wonder how all this is going to affect the prophecy about Belkar? We’re getting very close to the date. Assuming i)The Team Evil/O-Chul scene we left them at is chronologically the same as the point the narrative went back to the Order ii)Team Evil pretty rapidly found the door after that scene iii)The ritual takes 3 weeks iv)The big confrontation takes place at or near the end of the ritual v)Belkar dies on the last day of the year I think it was calculated that Belkar would still be alive at the confrontation, (just), by nitpickers on Oots forums. Of course, the Giant can do what he likes by fiat with fuzzy timescales,and those assumptions are unlikely to all be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5400 "2018-12-14T23:36:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > With Roy’s and Nale’s deaths, the _feels_, if you will, for the most part come from the responses of those who witnessed them. Disagree on Nale’s death. I thought the way he inadvertently brought about his own demise was excellently done, going from the cathartic rage of someone desperately seeking his father’s approval to corpse. It wasn’t about the reactions, it was about the moment. And it wasn’t a moment that would have effectively worked if it was dragged out for multiple panels. Tsukiko’s death was pretty meaningless to me as she was a one-note character who was fine but no one I was attached to. However, Redcloak’s proven mastery of the situation, his speech and how he flipped things is what made that strip a favorite. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5401 "2018-12-15T23:24:13Z")
Moving over to an older debate, I think Redcloak can curbstomp Xykon, due to years of focused contingency planning. Redcloak isn’t just going rely on a single magic bullet: he’s going to anticipate Xykon’s responses and plot things out 9 moves ahead. Xykon maxes out at 2 moves. Also, Redcloak knows exactly what the MitD is and can pre-empt those attacks as well. Xykon knows this. His plan is to leave MitD to battle Redcloak, while escaping and proceeding to nuke Goblintopia. Redcloak knows that as well. It’s all factored in. Xykon’s leveling up in the monster maze probably wasn’t fully anticipated. Appeals by Team Good to reach out to the Dark One are totally out of left field. Redcloak knows that no plan survives contact with the enemy, but that doesn’t mean he’ll improvise well. I don’t think careful planning can compensate for Xykon temporarily teaming up with Team Oots to prevent the end of the world. There are limits. Also, while we know that the world is Snarl’s prison, we still don’t know much about the waterworld inside the rift or even whether all the gods are aware of it. I assume some know. Also, it remains to be seen whether [Laurin Shattersmith](https://oots.fandom.com/wiki/Laurin_Shattersmith) is now the Snarl’s avatar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=269) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=271)