# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 273
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5442 "2018-12-17T18:08:09Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Okay, it’s a joke that everyone saw coming. But could it actually be a problem, because doesn’t Hel now get his soul? I expect the Rule of Funny triumphs, but… Resurrection is still available, even to souls that are destined for the custody of Hel. If not, Sigdi’s donation would have been a waste of time, as far as her new “family” was concerned. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5443 "2018-12-17T19:17:27Z")
I guess her answer was “no” then. I woudn’t think a Flamestrike would be enough to off Durkon. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5444 "2018-12-17T19:18:56Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I woudn’t think a Flamestrike would be enough to off Durkon. You Resurrect at full hit points so… rule of funny, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5445 "2018-12-17T19:22:53Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Don’t open til after reading the new strip… I’d think it would. Good job there, Hilgya! Not like he’s going to need his levels for tackling the Exarch or what’s left in Kraggor’s Tomb, or for Team Evil. Aside, I’m not sure of the exact phrasing of the bet, but this killing seems like an assassination, and I didn’t think getting assassinated meant that a Dwarf got sent to Hel. EDIT Not even am Empowered Flame Strike at that. I forget what the Cast and Level Geek guys at GIDP have Durkon and Hilgya at—IIRC it’s around 14 for both. Weird that her damage rolls were bigger than his hit dice rolls, but w/e, it was still funny. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5446 "2018-12-17T19:27:46Z")
For a non-spoilered observation, I am surprised and delighted that Burlew got this large strip out as quickly as he did. #1148 was five days ago, and today’s strip isn’t a small one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5447 "2018-12-17T20:16:57Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > You Resurrect at full hit points so… rule of funny, I guess. I would go full Belkar on her ass after that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5448 "2018-12-17T20:27:46Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > You Resurrect at full hit points so… rule of funny, I guess. Raise Dead only gives you hp equal to your hit dice, so probably that, and not a full Resurrect. > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I’d think it would. Good job there, Hilgya! Not like he’s going to need his levels for tackling the Exarch or what’s left in Kraggor’s Tomb, or for Team Evil. Aside, I’m not sure of the exact phrasing of the bet, but this killing seems like an assassination, and I didn’t think getting assassinated meant that a Dwarf got sent to Hel. Restoration restores all negative levels, and is a level lower than Raise Dead. She was almost certainly going to cast Restoration on him anyway, so curing a second negative level doesn’t really change much. And, as noted, it doesn’t matter if he went to Thor or Hel - Raise Dead works equally well in either situation. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5449 "2018-12-17T20:34:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Raise Dead only gives you hp equal to your hit dice, so probably that, and not a full Resurrect. Remember, though, that Durkula was dusted, courtesy of a stake through the heart helpfully provided by Belkar. The remains Hilgya had to work with were ashes and dust. In those circumstances, you need a full “Resurrection” spell to bring Durkon back. Raise Dead won’t be enough; not by a big margin. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5450 "2018-12-17T20:37:13Z")
Someone on the other board suggested she may use [Revivify](http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/miniatures-handbook--75/revivify--1958/index.html), which is in the Spell Compendium. She has to do it immediately, but he doesn’t lose a level. She’ll also have to Heal him (or a few Cure \* Wounds) after, since it leaves him at -1 HP. It was a good speech he made, but a marriage proposal? Yeah, I can understand a Flamestrike for that. He had it coming. As for it coming out quickly, he can do single page strips about every three days. This one was double page, but may have been easier than most, since there were only the same three characters in most of the panels and the background didn’t change at all. He could reuse a lot of the images from one panel to the next with only relatively minor changes. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5451 "2018-12-17T20:52:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Raise Dead only gives you hp equal to your hit dice, so probably that, and not a full Resurrect… > > Restoration restores all negative levels, and is a level lower than Raise Dead. She was almost certainly going to cast Restoration on him anyway, so curing a second negative level doesn’t really change much. And, as noted, it doesn’t matter if he went to Thor or Hel - Raise Dead works equally well in either situation. I thought that Resurrection’s level loss wasn’t a negative level, like one would get from a Wight’s touch, so much as the level is gone for good. Per the SRD ([Resurrection :: d20srd.org](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm)): > [@](#): > > However, the subject loses one level, or 2 points of Constitution if the subject was 1st level. (If this reduction would bring its Con to 0 or lower, it can’t be resurrected). This level loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. Raise Dead’s is similar, except they screw up the entry with surplusage about the level loss being, “just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature.” They then note, like for Rez, that the level loss can’t be repaired by any means, but I think it just makes it more confusing. Interestingly, the entry for Rez notes that the character comes back at full health, and with all of the spells it had memorized before dying. Not sure how coming back as undead changed any of that, but it would be interesting if Durkon came back with all of his unexpended spells from the fight in the pyramid. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5452 "2018-12-17T21:03:49Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I thought that Resurrection’s level loss wasn’t a negative level, like one would get from a Wight’s touch, so much as the level is gone for good. Per the SRD ([Resurrection :: d20srd.org](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm)): > > Raise Dead’s is similar, except they screw up the entry with surplusage about the level loss being, “just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature.” They then note, like for Rez, that the level loss can’t be repaired by any means, but I think it just makes it more confusing. > . In Pathfinder “The subject of the spell gains one permanent negative level when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature” you can bring those back with a Restoration spell. In 3.5 it is different, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5453 "2018-12-17T21:04:06Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > …It was a good speech he made, but a marriage proposal? Yeah, I can understand a Flamestrike for that. He had it coming… I thought it was entirely in character for a Lawful cleric in a medieval setting. So much so, that I’d have been surprised if Durkon didn’t do it. Fifty years ago, it’s what was expected in our society when someone got knocked up. Anathema to our modern audience, of course. Totally in character for Hilgya to want to blast him for doing it, as well as rejecting her initially. Hopefully something like Revivify is going to be used, because he’s going to need that level pretty quickly. A lot of the panels and art were reused throughout the strip, it’s true. Still seemed like a pretty quick turnaround. I was resigned to not seeing an update until after the holidays. ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5454 "2018-12-17T21:57:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Remember that Roy, a fighter, has 18 intelligence. Min-maxing was not a consideration when designing these characters. More like “roll 3d6 six times, in order.” Or, you know, thinking of them like characters in a story instead of gaming characters. > > And there are other reasons for flunking out of school besides being unintelligent and unwise. Various personality issues, for instance. Yeah, that’s why I threw in the “game stats wise” bit, I am pretty old school and actually like the roll 3d6 6 times format (and hate point buy systems). It was more that comments about his brains seemed to link his magical puissance as evidence of smarts, so I wanted to point out his in game magic ability isn’t based on that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5455 "2018-12-17T22:49:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In Pathfinder “The subject of the spell gains one permanent negative level when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature” you can bring those back with a Restoration spell. In 3.5 it is different, yes. Yeah, I need to stop commenting on 3.x rules. I’ve been playing Pathfinder way too long, and keep getting the details confused. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5456 "2018-12-18T00:57:01Z")
[Raise Dead](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm) can’t restore a creature to life if that creature had been transformed to undead. So Resurrection is the bre minimum needed. Of course, after this death, Durkon is eligible for Raise Dead. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5457 "2018-12-18T03:09:43Z")
Are we SURE that the baby is Durkon’s? Sure, he may be inferring it, but she didn’t answer him. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5458 "2018-12-18T04:32:49Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Are we SURE that the baby is Durkon’s? Sure, he may be inferring it, but she didn’t answer him. You know, now that you mention it, I don’t think she’s explicitly said it anywhere in the book. And it would be such a Burlew-like twist to throw at us. She shows up in 1105, the Order jumps to the conclusion it’s Durkon’s kid in 1106, and Roy’s blurts that, “we can’t lose his—I mean **your** —son next!” in 1107. So I think she knows they think Kudzu’s father is Durkon. But she’s not in a hurry to convince them otherwise. Not that I expect a cleric of Loki to put a high value on being truthful, unless it’d be more mischievous to tell the truth. And Hilgya had to use _Haley_ to channel the Greater Scrying spell, because “[Hilgya could] increase the spell’s potency a whole lot by channeling it through a part of [Durkon’s] body.” Since no one had any piece of Durkon around, and Haley was the last one of the party to be bled by Durkula, “[Haley’s body has the greatest chance of containing trace amounts of whatever necrotic substance serves as the vampire’s saliva within her bloodstream.” Given that, wouldn’t his child be an even better focus for the spell? So, let’s assume Kudzu isn’t Durkon’s kid. How does Kudzu not being related to Durkon change the plot? EDIT: Fantastic catch. I’m thinking your hypothesis is more likely to be the right one. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5459 "2018-12-18T04:50:24Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I thought it was entirely in character for a Lawful cleric in a medieval setting. I think you need to forget that they’re in a medieval setting. It’s no more about that time period than the Flintstones were about the stone age. > [@](#): > > I was resigned to not seeing an update until after the holidays. We can always hope he’ll release another one before Christmas. But I think it’s more likely that he rushed to get one out before going out of town for Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5460 "2018-12-18T05:02:32Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I think you need to forget that they’re in a medieval setting. It’s no more about that time period than the Flintstones were about the stone age. > > We can always hope he’ll release another one before Christmas. But I think it’s more likely that he rushed to get one out before going out of town for Christmas. Fine, then in a ‘traditional’ setting following Norse-ish gods, based around the concept of Honor, and dying with it. I’d think most non-Loki following Dwarves would do similarly to what Durkon did, based on what we’ve seen of Dwarven society. I agree with your guess about Burlew’s reasons for getting a strip out this fast. I’m glad he did, rather than have us wait the usual 2 weeks plus between updates. As to Jonathan’s hypo about Kudzu not being Durkon’s son, Thor in strip 1136, does say, “Mazel tov on the dad thing, by the way.” I imagine Thor would know whether Kudzu is Durkon’s child or not, then the question becomes, would Thor of his own accord mislead Durkon by not telling him the truth? Or would Thor be bound to not tell Durkon, especially if he wanted Durkon to return to the Prime with most of his memories? Or maybe Thor thinks that misleading Durkon about the parentage of Kudzu would lead to a better result? I’m hazy on Thor’s mythology. Was Thor known for having a lot of illegitimate kids, or for not caring about whether children arose from wedlock or not? I know there’s a line Durkon has, around the Cliffport arc IIRC, where he says something about ‘Thor’s understanding about these things.’ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/5461 "2018-12-18T07:15:47Z")
Am I alone in supposing that, having accomplished her stated purpose of killing Durkon, Hilgya will now be receptive to his overtures for alliance, and may even accept his proposal of marriage, for her son’s benefit? Durkon may even be favorably impressed by her willingness to follow through (or her insistence on doing so). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=272) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=274)