# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/561 "2014-10-24T23:04:33Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Not much, actually - it’s more of a wizard/sorcerer thing. Though some cleric domains have some “do as I say” stuff, Nobility in particular. Cleric mind voodoo is more about “tell me the truth” or “stop right there !” than Mandchurian Candidate whammys. Well, there’s Symbol Of Persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/562 "2014-10-24T23:08:07Z")
Durkon himself has the vampire Domination power though, outside of clerical magics. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/563 "2014-10-24T23:39:15Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Could just be that he knows no clerics of high enough level will be on hand. Rules question: can’t even a low level cleric use a scroll for a rez? If they don’t have one handy, doesn’t Durkon have the ability to make one? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/564 "2014-10-25T01:39:01Z")
Durkon/Durkula might be able to make a Resurrection scroll himself, and even if he couldn’t, he and V working together can certainly do it. A low-level cleric would have a chance to be able to use it, but Haley or likely Elan could also do it, via the Use Magic Device skill. Which is really something that someone in the party should have thought of already: They could have had the real Durkon back during the airship trip. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/565 "2014-10-25T02:08:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Durkon/Durkula might be able to make a Resurrection scroll himself, and even if he couldn’t, he and V working together can certainly do it. A low-level cleric would have a chance to be able to use it, but Haley or likely Elan could also do it, via the Use Magic Device skill. Which is really something that someone in the party should have thought of already: They could have had the real Durkon back during the airship trip. Given a choice between waiting a few days and having Elan use a magic device, I’d wait. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/566 "2014-10-25T02:50:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Speaking of, Durkon is also still bound to the staff for _Protection From Daylight_. Would he want to risk depleting the staff further by raising new vampires? I don’t know the answer to that, and I don’t know much about DnD staffs in general – do they only have so many charge of _every_, or so many charges of _each_ spell they contain? It sounds like you’re saying it’s the latter, correct? In any case, I still think it’s pretty interesting that we know just two things about this staff that Durkoff is constantly pictured carrying: it carries a _Protection from Sunlight_ spell, and a _Make Vampire Right Now From Blood-Drained Guy_ spell. Rich hasn’t relieved Durkoff of the need for that staff yet, and we’re all thinking it’s because Durkoff needs the _Daylight_ spell, but perhaps this is a slight fake and the plot will, sooner or later, need that other spell also. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/567 "2014-10-25T03:34:26Z")
I haven’t played in forever but back in my day they had a set number of charges and different effects used up different amounts of magical energy. We don’t know the spell level of either effect but it seems reasonable that _Protection from Sunlight_ is less draining than _Insta-Raise Vampire_. Of course, even if Durkon learns the _Protection_ spell, it still makes sense for him to carry the staff around. Not only as a back-up source of the _Protection_ magic but magic staffs are often enchanted weapons in of themselves. I don’t think it was ever established that Durkon’s hammer was magical and so the staff may have been a weapon upgrade even without its abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/568 "2014-10-25T03:54:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, there’s Symbol Of Persuasion. True, but Symbols are shit when you don’t play fast and loose with their rules (i.e. Xykon’s rubber ball and similar “symbol grenades” ? Yeaaah they’re not really legit 😉 - though I’ll admit there are shades of Rules As Written vs. Design Intent going on there. But if I’m your DM and you plan on pulling that kind of stuff, yer gonna have a bad time mate) [QUOTE=Jophiel] Speaking of, Durkon is also still bound to the staff for _Protection From Daylight_. Would he want to risk depleting the staff further by raising new vampires? [/QUOTE] Depends. There’s not really such a spell as “Protection from Daylight” in AD&D (or Pathfinder), so a definite answer is naturally impossible. But depleting the staff is not really a concern… or it can be. I know, I know, bear with me. Staves in D&D are not finite magic items, rather they act kind of like spell storing devices. Each staff has a number of “charges”, and each staff can cast a small number or individual spells, each of which consumes a set number of charges depending on the power of the spell. However, charges are not finite : you can recharge a staff every day by “forgetting spells” at it - I won’t go into specifics there because there’s little point, but the gist is : staves act as magic batteries. When you don’t have anything better to do with your day, you polish your staff and it’s a strictly positive investment. When you’re adventuring however, setting aside spells slots just to power a limited staff is kinda dumb unless said staff is _really good_, or you can use a spell you have to gain access to a spell you don’t. But bear in mind that anybody with the right spell list can repower the staff - theoretically, Durkon could thrall an NPC cleric and park himin the hold of the \*Merkane \*for the sole purpose of daily staff polishing. It’s more a trust issue - does he _really_ want to let anyone lay hands on his precious “I cannot die easily” geegaw ? On the other hand, thralling just about anybody for a quick, temporary advantage (and fuck 'em if they die) is sort of what vamps do. The whole getting attached to their “children” is more of a thematic, Anne Rice aspect than a matter of rules… and vamps are Chaotic Evil by default. They’re not _expected_ to care. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/569 "2014-10-25T04:21:28Z")
Yeah, I knew you could recharge staffs but (again, per my old recollection) you had to invest spells into it based on what the staff could “cast”. So a staff that casts _Light_ and _Resurrection_ (to use an extreme example) could be recharged from either effect used with a bunch of _Light_ spells cast into it but you couldn’t cast _Cure Light Wounds_ at it to recharge it since that’s not an effect the staff has. Which, now that I think of it, Malack use the staff once to [heal V](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html). You would think that Durkon could recharge it that way unless he’s just unaware of its full abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/570 "2014-10-25T05:04:37Z")
[966](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0966.html) already. Bad things abrewin’ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/571 "2014-10-25T06:42:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > True, but Symbols are shit when you don’t play fast and loose with their rules (i.e. Xykon’s rubber ball and similar “symbol grenades” ? Yeaaah they’re not really legit 😉 - though I’ll admit there are shades of Rules As Written vs. Design Intent going on there. But if I’m your DM and you plan on pulling that kind of stuff, yer gonna have a bad time mate) Who needs a rubber ball or a grenade to play with the rules as written? I don’t need my intended targets to see it _at all_; as soon as _anybody_ other than me looks at it or touches it when a creature uncovers it, _everybody_ in range gets hit with my charm. Figure I’m part of a party, such that (a) we’re all trusted friends and allies, and so (b) one of 'em will obligingly risk getting charmed and (GASP! SWOON!) see me as a trusted friend and ally, at which point everybody else risks becoming just as obliging. Only, y’know, minus the usual reciprocity. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/572 "2014-10-25T15:59:27Z")
D&D 3.5 edition does not have any means of recharging a staff, short of making a new one (which requires access to all of the spells the staff is to have). It does have means for using a staff without expending charges, but those are tucked away in rulebooks that OotS appears not to be using, and requires capabilities that Durkon probably doesn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/573 "2014-10-25T17:48:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > D&D 3.5 edition does not have any means of recharging a staff, short of making a new one (which requires access to all of the spells the staff is to have). It does have means for using a staff without expending charges, but those are tucked away in rulebooks that OotS appears not to be using, and requires capabilities that Durkon probably doesn’t have. Thanks. Does 3.5 have rules for knowing how many charges remain in an item? Anyway, since it’s reasonable to assume that Durkon will need the staff in working condition to research the _Protection from Sunlight_ spell, I’d think he’d be loathe to use any of its charges unnecessarily until he gets that done. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/574 "2014-10-27T17:30:12Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Thanks. Does 3.5 have rules for knowing how many charges remain in an item? Anyway, since it’s reasonable to assume that Durkon will need the staff in working condition to research the _Protection from Sunlight_ spell, I’d think he’d be loathe to use any of its charges unnecessarily until he gets that done. From the description [here](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm), it seems like you would be able to tell how many charges are left. ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/575 "2014-10-27T17:53:16Z")
I for one am not expecting Durkon back from the dead for quite a while, at the minimum not until the undead version visits his homeland. The Oracle said he would visit his homeland posthumously and what’s a more posthumous visit than one made by an undead? That, and the high priest of Thor had a vision that when Durkon returned, things would be bad. And I still \<3 Belkar. > [@](#): > > Just picture their little church-hats flying off their heads in fear. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/576 "2014-10-27T21:27:33Z")
> [@](#): > > That, and the high priest of Thor had a vision that when Durkon returned, things would be bad. Specifically, that he would bring “death and destruction”, which are likely to be his new cleric domains. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/577 "2014-10-27T22:32:36Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Thanks. Does 3.5 have rules for knowing how many charges remain in an item? Anyway, since it’s reasonable to assume that Durkon will need the staff in working condition to research the _Protection from Sunlight_ spell, I’d think he’d be loathe to use any of its charges unnecessarily until he gets that done. Staves don’t necessarily work off charges. They can have n/day functions as well. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/578 "2014-10-28T13:12:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Specifically, that he would bring “death and destruction”, which are likely to be his new cleric domains. Nice catch! I hope this is accurate as it twists the meaning nicely! ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/579 "2014-11-10T16:25:08Z")
**[New Comic Up](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html)** ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/580 "2014-11-10T16:43:18Z")
And there was great foreshadowing throughout the land. Shiny! Blackwing gets no respect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=30)