# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/41 "2014-04-01T04:40:53Z")
Durkevil’s arrogance in the pre-break strip signals his eventual demise. But who can take him down? (Tropes demand that Durkon do the deed, but set that aside for now.) Belkar isn’t smart enough to articulate his incoherent suspicions persuasively. Roy is blinded by wishful thinking. V _might_ have sufficient arcane knowledge to suspect that something is up. The idea that a bearer of negative energy still gains sustenance from Thor is a red flag. Haley is also blinded by wishful thinking and Durkevil’s status is a bit outside her central concerns. But she is also deceit-saavy and Durkevil is young and somewhat naive. Certainly inexperienced. Elan: I can’t see how genre saavy would help, at least until the mid-game or end-game. Someone outside Oots has a shot of course. Ironically, Tarquin might work out _exactly_ what’s going on - and may have even understood it instantly. O’Chul doesn’t seem like the suspicious sort. The late Miko Miyazaki would have of course correctly IDd Durkevil’s reliability - even paranoids have enemies after all. Durkon, OTOH, might have access to certain spells. He can pray to Thor. Material components could only be gathered opportunistically. Somatic components are unusable unless Durkevil does them coincidentally. Ditto for verbal components - presumably. Divine Focus: Maybe Durkevil’s holy symbol is just for show - maybe his real holy symbol is something else. Maybe Durkon could still use his holy symbol. Any insight from game players? It’s obviously a sticky situation: Durkon will reveal anything _if asked_ - but Durkevil may be too arrogant/naive to inquire, “How are you plotting against me?” ETA: Blackwing… ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/42 "2014-04-01T07:19:16Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > I actually didn’t interpret this as Durkon reviewing happy memories or thinking of the sun to punish the vampire spirit. My take on this was that the vampire was going through his memories to learn more about him so as to better impersonate him, especially if they run into Durkon’s family. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > That’s my take as well. Darn it, I think you’re probably right. So now I’m back to merely **hoping** that Durkon has some kind of escape while he’s bound and helpless. On a more positive note, my daughter and I think that little Durkon is adorable. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/43 "2014-04-01T07:24:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I was wondering about that, too… Mining accident? Orcish raid? Attacked by a vicious gingko? She was clearly in the military (“Sergeant”) so I’m going to go with “tree” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/44 "2014-04-01T14:17:15Z")
So from this strip it seems reasonably likely that Durkpire will run into people he knew – perhaps his mum! – when he was alive and in the Dwarven lands, now that he’s traveling back north. He’ll avoid that at all costs of course, but it’ll happen and that’s partly how Durkpire will be detected as a forgery. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/45 "2014-04-02T00:30:46Z")
Uncovering DurkEvil will be hard. It’s not enough to perceive that something is off, since most irregularities can be explained away by the infusion of negative energy. Comprehensive memory can paper over a lot. To perceive the situation accurately requires at a minimum that the observer has familiarity with soul trapping, like Xykon did with Lirian and Dorukan. Otherwise they will lack a sufficient frame of reference. Every member of Oots might possess a piece of the puzzle, even if all lack the ability to synthesize the answer. Redcloak would have a decent chance of obtaining such insight. I imagine he lies awake nights forming contingency plans against Xykon. Redcloak isn’t an especially quick thinker, but he is methodical, wary and familiar with things going very wrong. The problem is there’s no reason why he should care what Durkon’s true state is. Durkevil might very well be naive enough to reveal all as Hel’s grand plans come to fruition. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > It’s obviously a sticky situation: Durkon will reveal anything _if asked_ - but Durkevil may be too arrogant/naive to inquire, “How are you plotting against me?” Then again, Durkevil might have access to Durkon’s memories, but not necessarily his true opinions. Or not. > [@](#): > > Ironically, Tarquin might work out _exactly_ what’s going on - and may have even understood it instantly. Malack might have kept his barbarian core hidden of course. Or he might not have had a barbarian core: maybe you only get dual personalities if the original version was of good alignment. At any rate the barbarian core may very well had reached a point of exhaustion a hundred years back. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/46 "2014-04-02T01:08:05Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Someone outside Oots has a shot of course. Hilgya! Burlew loves hauling in stuff that you thought had been forgotten 800 strips ago. And Hilgya has cleric training and might be more hip to how undead actually work than the remaining OOTSers. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/47 "2014-04-02T03:38:01Z")
I kinda prefer the stick-y arms and legs, to be honest. It’s what made it the Order of the **Stick**. But in Rich we trust. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/48 "2014-04-02T04:28:45Z")
I like artistic development. Seriously: no snark. I like tracking how directors, musicians and graphic artists change over time. Each ratchet gives a different feel to the work, and to me the compare and contrast is part of the fun. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Hilgya! Burlew loves hauling in stuff that you thought had been forgotten 800 strips ago. And Hilgya has cleric training and might be more hip to how undead actually work than the remaining OOTSers. But Hilgya might _like_ Durkevil… they both worship Hel for example. Then again, if she knows how vampires work, she might respond differently. Actually, if _anybody_ knew how vampires work, they …well I guess they’d try to hide that fact until they were far away from Durkevil. Tarq had a ring of true seeing. Would that or any other magical device or spell reveal Durkon’s situation? Is this a case of possession? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/49 "2014-04-02T04:35:28Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > But Hilgya might _like_ Durkevil… they both worship Hel for example. Wasn’t she a cleric of Loki? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/50 "2014-04-02T04:38:57Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Wasn’t she a cleric of Loki? She was and presumably still is. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/51 "2014-04-02T04:41:05Z")
Question: What was Durkon’s “prophecy?” That he’d return to his homeland after he died? So, presuming they do go back to his homeland, does this count? I’m just wondering about potential loopholes / twists. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/52 "2014-04-02T04:43:28Z")
That’s right, Hilgya was a cleric of Loki. :smack: She might find herself charmed by Durkula, though she would know the risks of a close encounter. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/53 "2014-04-02T05:02:09Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Question: What was Durkon’s “prophecy?” That he’d return to his homeland after he died? So, presuming they do go back to his homeland, does this count? > > I’m just wondering about potential loopholes / twists. It was that he’d return “posthumously”. Since he has died one can certainly argue that him returning as a vampire qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/54 "2014-04-02T05:03:10Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Tarq had a ring of true seeing. Would that or any other magical device or spell reveal Durkon’s situation? Is this a case of possession? True Seeing allows you to see through illusions, invisibility, see a _Polymorphed_ object’s true state (like V when he was a lizard), etc. It wouldn’t reveal a creature to be charmed, under a _Suggestion_ or possessed though. I can’t think of a spell that would reveal what’s up with Durkon aside from divination commune-style magic with an explicitly stated “Hey, is Durkon possessed by a negative energy spirit while his true mind is trapped and helpless?” sort of question. Passive styles of divination such as _Detect Undead_ or _Detect Evil_ will just understandably state that he’s a vampire so, yeah, he’s “evil” as a state of being. Maybe something direct like _Discern Lies_ or _Probe Thoughts_ but those suggest enough suspicion to cast them and then start questioning Dukron and they aren’t really “detect vampire spirit” magic like you’re asking about. Part of the issue is that, as we went over in the last book, there’s no actual rules for what Burlew is doing so there aren’t really spells designed around it. Closest I could find would be _[Soul Dominion](http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Soul_Dominion)_ but that doesn’t say that it’s detectable by anything special. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/55 "2014-04-02T05:13:17Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Question: What was Durkon’s “prophecy?” That he’d return to his homeland after he died? So, presuming they do go back to his homeland, does this count? > > I’m just wondering about potential loopholes / twists. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It was that he’d return “posthumously”. Since he has died one can certainly argue that him returning as a vampire qualifies. There are two prophecies about Durkon’s return. The first was sent to a cleric from Odin. It said that when Durkon returned to his home he would bring destruction. (I don’t have the book in front of me but that’s the basic message.) So the cleric sent Durkon off on a mission - he told Durkon to go out in the world and not return until the cleric sent for him. He knew Durkon was dutiful and would not return until he was told he could and the cleric did not intend to ever call him back. Durkon himself is not aware of this and the cleric has since died without passing this information on to his successor. The second prophecy is the one Der Trihs referred to. Durkon asked the Oracle when he would return home and was told “posthumously”. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/56 "2014-04-02T12:38:31Z")
So it looks like both prophecies can come true just by Durkon returning home. Rich plays a long game, indeed. I also imagine that Durkon is going to be witness to a lot of heartbreak as his possessor causes mayhem at at the old dwarven home. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/57 "2014-04-07T16:36:31Z")
New Post [#948](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/58 "2014-04-07T16:53:02Z")
So, apparently, the whole point of yesterday’s strip was, “How Durkon learned to swear.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Garula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Garula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garula)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/59 "2014-04-07T17:37:50Z")
Whoa, Roy looks really different with this new style. Kinda reminds me of the character designs from Adventure Time. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/60 "2014-04-07T17:41:37Z")
> [@Garula](#): > > Whoa, Roy looks really different with this new style. Kinda reminds me of the character designs from Adventure Time. I’ll survive and all but I’m not a fan. Roy was easier to picture with high Strength when he had stick figure arms than when he has noodle arms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=4)