# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/701 "2015-01-12T18:16:24Z")
Elan: Hooray for 2015! It had both good and bad times and a whole lot of in-the-middle times! Haley: Yeah, and can you believe that highly unlikely event really happened? Durkon: Aye, but at least the other **very probable** thing tha happen’d made up fer it. Haley: True, true. Blackwing: My gods, they’r **diviners** , the lot of them! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/702 "2015-01-13T00:42:45Z")
[New one](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0972.html) - 972 - up! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/703 "2015-01-13T00:44:20Z")
Heh…“mostly lateral move”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/704 "2015-01-13T01:23:43Z")
Hmm, Haley’s arrows just bouncing off. Basic Flesh Golems have just the +1 magic weapons needed protection, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/705 "2015-01-13T01:43:17Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Hmm, Haley’s arrows just bouncing off. Basic Flesh Golems have just the +1 magic weapons needed protection, yes? Nope. 5/Adamantine (which means 5 points substracted from any physical damage incurred, unless the weapon is made of Adamantine or is adamantine-equivalent). I think we can assume that weird new kinds of flesh golems have that basic DR beefed up some. They’re immune to magic too, incidentally. Ironically, Haley would normally be the best equipped to punch through that - magic adamantine weapons cost an arm and a leg, but adamantine \*arrows \*you can pretty much buy in bulk at these levels. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/706 "2015-01-13T01:51:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Heh…“mostly lateral move”. She might even be a bit ahead. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/707 "2015-01-13T01:59:02Z")
Crystal is probably set up specifically to be difficult for Haley to fight. That’s why her first action was to remove Elan from the battle. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/708 "2015-01-13T03:09:00Z")
I see from [this (non-canon) page](http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Flesh_Golem) that, “A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds, with no saving throw.” Haley just shot a cold arrow. So maybe it’s a shoot and run game. I see that Flesh golems normally move as fast as humans. Ah: Elan is an immobile hostage, isn’t he? I feel a little sorry for Crystal: being made into a unnatural construct doesn’t sound fun. Maybe not as bad as Durkon’s predicament, but still. Not sure what Crystal and Bozack are doing in Tinkertown. It’s hard to believe that Haley would be worth tracking down in gp terms. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/709 "2015-01-13T03:40:16Z")
[Use this page for your reference needs instead](http://www.d20srd.org/). It’s only the official content, and is better-organized to boot. But [official flesh golems](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#fleshGolem) also have that vulnerability. Which may or may not apply to Crystal, since she’s not a standard flesh golem. Hey, I just had a thought: Would the Shatter spell deal damage to her? Since she’s Crystal, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/710 "2015-01-13T21:28:11Z")
I’m looking at her head and thinking if the stitches were red it would look like a baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/711 "2015-01-13T21:45:50Z")
So if flesh golems are immune to magic and have massive damage reduction, how are they typically dispatched? Do you have your fighters just beat on them until they stop moving (either the fighters or the golem)? How about the bigger and tougher golems, e.g. the iron golems? Also, is anyone else flashing back to the last book? Isn’t an encounter like this how we ended up spending a couple of years in the Kingdom of Blood? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/712 "2015-01-13T22:13:31Z")
> [@Mr.Goob](#): > > I’m looking at her head and thinking if the stitches were red it would look like a baseball. Some golems do look like a baseball, deliberately so. See [page 2 panel 8](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0578.html) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/713 "2015-01-13T22:56:29Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > So if flesh golems are immune to magic and have massive damage reduction, how are they typically dispatched? Do you have your fighters just beat on them until they stop moving (either the fighters or the golem)? First, DR 5 isn’t massive. A seventh-level fighter that isn’t dealing at least 15-20 points on an average hit just isn’t trying very hard. Second, an adamantine weapon overcomes that DR. One of the criticisms of 3.5 (the edition OotS is based on) is the golf-bag approach to combat: many PCs ended up carrying around a golf bag full of weapons made of different materials in order to overcome DR. (Well, not really, but it’s a fun image). Third, it’s only immune to magic that allows spell resistance. The conjuration school of magic has several spells that do HP damage and don’t allow spell resistance, such as acid arrow or black tentacles. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/714 "2015-01-13T22:58:06Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > So if flesh golems are immune to magic and have massive damage reduction, how are they typically dispatched? Do you have your fighters just beat on them until they stop moving (either the fighters or the golem)? 5 is not really massive, low level adventurers often face zombies and skeletons who have the same DR (skellies against anything except blunt weapons, zombies against anything besides slashing). It just means you have a to whack at them a couple more times. That level of DR is only really annoying for lowbie archers and monks, who both typically rely on a large number of low-damage hits rather than a few high damage ones. > [@](#): > > How about the bigger and tougher golems, e.g. the iron golems? Adamantine or go home, pretty much. I mean, Iron Golems are still only 15/Adamantine so that’s chip damage-able by a strong 2-handing warrior or barbarian, but assuming the golem can hit you back it’s enough of a slowdown in damage output to get crushed by the retaliation long before you’ve whittled down their HP total. Be prepared to whack at them for a looooong time (or just flee down the corridor and easily take them down at range because their sprite is too big to pass through the door, helloooo BG2 fans in the house ! :p). There are also a few spells that do not allow a spell resistance check at all, and thus ignore magic immunity. Force Orb springs to mind (but then that spell is generally broken). It’s ironically against those foes, in these level ranges, that the monks and archers have their turn in the spotlight - archers because adamantine arrows out the ass, monks because their fists become adamantine-equivalent at high levels. Just don’t ask me how a dude punching a solid iron statue bare-handed as hard as he can doesn’t kill his own bones forever 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/715 "2015-01-13T23:27:39Z")
[quote=“Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness, post:713, topic:682755”] First, DR 5 isn’t massive. A seventh-level fighter that isn’t dealing at least 15-20 points on an average hit just isn’t trying very hard./QUOTE] When Roy was attacking the mummies, he was doing 50+ HP per hit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/716 "2015-01-13T23:36:22Z")
Most golems are also mindless, which means they’re pretty easy to trick into pit traps or the like. This whatever-it-is apparently has a mind, but since the mind is Crystal’s, it’ll probably still be easily tricked. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/717 "2015-01-14T00:31:10Z")
Is there a standard spell that would give Bozzok some control over Crystal, or is it that too house-ruled? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/718 "2015-01-14T00:51:32Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Is there a standard spell that would give Bozzok some control over Crystal, or is it that too house-ruled? Golems obey their creator - which can include orders such as, “Do whatever that guy over there tells you to do.” ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/719 "2015-01-22T22:36:10Z")
[New one](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0973.html) (973) is up! ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/720 "2015-01-22T23:19:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > 5 is not really massive, low level adventurers often face zombies and skeletons who have the same DR (skellies against anything except blunt weapons, zombies against anything besides slashing). It just means you have a to whack at them a couple more times. That level of DR is only really annoying for lowbie archers and monks, who both typically rely on a large number of low-damage hits rather than a few high damage ones. OK, but Haley is not a lowbie archer and the arrows are bouncing off. So…DR of greater than 5 Also, since when does an archer of Haley’s level miss at that range? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=37)