# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1141 "2015-06-15T04:41:22Z")
For those who were not Kickstarter supporters, there’s a new OotS wallpaper [available for downloading](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/Wallpapers.html). This one was inspired by the passing of Leonard Nimoy and has the OotS playing ST:TOS characters: Roy as Kirk V as Spock Durkon as Scotty Julia as Uhura Haley as Sulu Belkar as Chekov Elan as McCoy Banjo as Nurse Chapel Celia as Rand Mr Scruffy as a tribble Blackwing as a red shirt ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1142 "2015-06-15T23:38:56Z")
Thog as a Klingon Hinjo as some superior at Starfleet Command ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1143 "2015-06-16T13:58:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I see that Magic Jar was around in the 2nd edition. Necromancy isn’t V’s field, though of course she may have heard of it. I’m guessing it isn’t a common thing though. A Magic Jar-type effect is, however, an integral ability of their main nemesis, Xykon (remember him). So it would be in both Roy and V’s peripheral awareness at least. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1144 "2015-06-16T16:47:56Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Buffy’s vampires were a little bit of both I think. On the one hand you had a demon crashing inside your body with you still in there. On the other hand, your “soul” (undefined, but functionally one’s conscience and notion of right/wrong) left the building. > So you’re still you, but the worst possible version of you that’s constantly given pointers by a purely evil being. I think they had trouble coming up with a consistent mythology for vampirism on “Buffy”-- at the very least, it evolved over the years. But your explanation makes as much sense as any. Kind of explains why some vampires were conscience-less but not _particularly_ evil (Harmony and (arguably) Spike) and others really delighted in the whole “evil” thing (Angelus). Not quite sure how Season 8’s ur-vampires fit into the whole mythology. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1145 "2015-06-22T20:16:37Z")
[New Strip!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0991.html) ---
**Author:** ![neofishboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/neofishboy/32/444_2.png) [@neofishboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neofishboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1146 "2015-06-22T20:57:54Z")
I am a grown man and I just squealed “Ooooo! Crayon!” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1147 "2015-06-22T22:03:52Z")
A tale of somebody doing their duty to the end and sacrificing their life for the greater good right before an evil being puts a plan into effect. I think Durkon’s posthumous state may be fast approaching. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1148 "2015-06-22T22:29:30Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Kind of explains why some vampires were conscience-less but not _particularly_ evil (Harmony and (arguably) Spike). . . In Buffy, didn’t Spike get his nickname because he enjoyed impaling people on railroad spikes? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1149 "2015-06-22T22:46:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > In Buffy, didn’t Spike get his nickname because he enjoyed impaling people on railroad spikes? No, he got it because his poetry was so awful, you’d sooner drive a railway spike into your ear than listen to any of it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1150 "2015-06-23T01:22:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, he got it because his poetry was so awful, you’d sooner drive a railway spike into your ear than listen to any of it. From Buffy Season 2, Episode 3, “School Hard” > [@](#): > > Willow: Can we hide? I mean, if that Spike guy is leading the attack, yee! > Giles: Well, he can’t be worse than any other creature you’ve faced > [Angel appears] > Angel: He’s worse. Once he starts something, he doesn’t stop until everything in his path is dead. > Xander: Hmm. So he’s thorough, goal oriented. > > . . . > > Giles: Our new friend, Spike. He’s known as William the Bloody. Earned his nickname by torturing his victims with railroad spikes. Then, when the vampires are attacking the school during parent teachers night, you first see him grabbing a man, and then, after another vampire gives him a status update, considering it, then saying to the guy he’s grabbed. “I’m a veal type of guy. You’re too old to eat.” Then he snaps his neck and says, “But not to kill. I feel better.” He was nerfed in later seasons, when they wanted to make him some sort of anti-hero and romantic interest for Buffy, but at least when Spike was introduced, he was an impulsive, murderous sadist engaged in a bizarre codependent relationship with Drusilla. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1151 "2015-06-23T01:41:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > From Buffy Season 2, Episode 3, “School Hard” Ah, but from Season 5, Episode 7, [Fool for Love](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fool_for_Love_%28Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer%29): > [@](#): > > As a vampire, William adopted the name Spike; Giles believed that both the nickname and his former title as “William the Bloody” derived from his practice of torturing people with railroad spikes. This episode reveals the true origin of these nicknames: one listener to William’s poem in the flashback comments that he would rather have a railroad spike driven through his head than listen to any of William’s poetry, and notes that William is referred to as “William the Bloody” because of his “bloody” awful poetry. Regardless of the comical origins of his name, it is implied that Spike may have literally acted upon the violent allusions as revenge once he became a vampire. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1152 "2015-06-23T08:45:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think Durkon’s posthumous state may be fast approaching. He’s _already_ “posthumous”. He just hasn’t stopped moving. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1153 "2015-06-23T11:38:18Z")
As a partial derailment, I think that Spike’s nickname can refer to and is both. I think he knew what they said, as he’s not a moron, and merely decided to make it his own. As for OotS, I feel like this whole subplot is a bit of a derailment itself. Unless Rich was going to handwave the journey, which he hasn’t so far, this feels like a big digression. I guess I’m feeling like we are near the end of the Xykon story line and don’t want it to go off on a tangent for a while but that’s me. vislor ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1154 "2015-06-23T12:19:25Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > As for OotS, I feel like this whole subplot is a bit of a derailment itself. Unless Rich was going to handwave the journey, which he hasn’t so far, this feels like a big digression. I guess I’m feeling like we are near the end of the Xykon story line and don’t want it to go off on a tangent for a while but that’s me. In general I think this is part of Durkon’s story arc, much as we’ve already had or are having major story arcs for the other characters. I don’t think it’s likely to be directly relevant to the Xykon story but it might connect to the Snarl one (indeed, I suspect the Snarl outbreak is a likely cause of the Godsmoot being called so abruptly). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1155 "2015-06-23T12:27:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He was nerfed in later seasons, when they wanted to make him some sort of anti-hero and romantic interest for Buffy, but at least when Spike was introduced, he was an impulsive, murderous sadist engaged in a bizarre codependent relationship with Drusilla. I think it’s more _“he acts however he thinks his current love interest wants him to”_. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1156 "2015-06-23T12:52:59Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > In general I think this is part of Durkon’s story arc, much as we’ve already had or are having major story arcs for the other characters. > > I don’t think it’s likely to be directly relevant to the Xykon story but it might connect to the Snarl one (indeed, I suspect the Snarl outbreak is a likely cause of the Godsmoot being called so abruptly). I like Durkon just fine and so I don’t need his specific arc because I feel like we already got it in terms of how he acts in the other’s arcs. Now, Rich has surprised me before and maybe this will also be good and I will enjoy it. At the moment, I’m ready for the ending of this story, and then let something else fill in the backstory. But that’s me. And good point on the Godsmoot and reason for it. vislor ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1157 "2015-06-23T13:43:48Z")
We don’t know anything really about Godsmoots and what you need to do to get an invite but it seems like Redcloak would at least be aware of the big priest convention given that he’s the Dark One’s chosen, certainly the DO’s highest level priest and likely one of the highest level priests in the entire game world. The last based on Hayley’s comment when trying to _Resurrect_ Roy that she didn’t know if this world even had 17th level clerics and [Belkar helpfully pointing out](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0579.html) that Redcloak was probably 17th+ level. If Redcloak knows that there’s a big priest pow-wow about his plan, does he try to stop them? Try to just hustle Xkyon along before they can act? Arrive triumphant to blackmail the gods? Seems that they wouldn’t set up the whole ritual thing and not have it happen in some form or another so I can’t believe that Team Evil won’t seize the Gate for at least a little while despite everyone’s best efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1158 "2015-06-23T16:16:24Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > We don’t know anything really about Godsmoots and what you need to do to get an invite but it seems like Redcloak would at least be aware of the big priest convention given that he’s the Dark One’s chosen, certainly the DO’s highest level priest and likely one of the highest level priests in the entire game world. The last based on Hayley’s comment when trying to _Resurrect_ Roy that she didn’t know if this world even had 17th level clerics and [Belkar helpfully pointing out](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0579.html) that Redcloak was probably 17th+ level. There’s also this: [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0826.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0826.html) Four real time years later. But it implies that Redcloak just leveled up to his 9th level Cleric spells. Absent anything bumping him artificially, that’s 17th level. He’s able to cast Implosion twice during the day, which he does in that strip. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1159 "2015-06-23T16:23:11Z")
It may be that only Good-aligned clerics (or perhaps non-Evil-aligned) would be invited, so Redcloak wouldn’t be on the list. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1160 "2015-06-23T20:25:33Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > There’s also this: > > [826 Minimal Resistance - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0826.html) > > Four real time years later. But it implies that Redcloak just leveled up to his 9th level Cleric spells. Absent anything bumping him artificially, that’s 17th level. He’s able to cast Implosion twice during the day, which he does in that strip. Actually, he only casts it once. And Belkar was probably just guessing at Redcloak’s level. The Godsmoot is a convocation of just the Northern Gods’ high priests, not those of every pantheon. Veldrina is representing the Western and Elven gods at it. It’s quite likely that the Dark One has been kept in the dark about the whole thing. And if he does know, may or may not be sending an observer. Redcloak would be unlikely to be that observer; he has a much more important mission. There’s lots of speculation about the reason for the Godsmoot, but I’d say the lashing out by the Snarl at the Draketooth rift is almost certainly not it. That happened in the Western Continent, so it would be the Western/Elven gods who would be having the moot about it. If they even know about it, which they may not. Was there any cleric at the scene to give them a report? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=59)