# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1321 "2015-08-07T19:40:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I have a similar rule for falling into lava. Lava ? Hell, from a quick browse of the SRD, being \*set on fire \*causes… 1d6 damage per round. With an easy-ish reflex save to stop it altogether, every round. I’m just saying, in D&D land napalm in the morning smells like minor inconvenience at best :). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1322 "2015-08-07T20:24:35Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > What’s up with Belkar in panel #9? He seems to be tripping or stumbling. Artistic license with the _[Protection from Evil](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm)_ amulet? While I can see it causing discomfort, nothing in the spell description indicates that it actually incapacitates or wounds evil creatures who are in contact with the effect. Good question. It looks like the effect changes somewhat in that panel, too - he’s got streamers of what looks like steam coming off of him that’s not in any of the other panels. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1323 "2015-08-07T20:27:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I usually have a house rule that, after a certain point, falling is just instant death, with no dice rolls required, unless the player has something that could plausibly (and I have a pretty flexible definition of plausible) allow them to survive. A fall like the one Belkar just took would generally not be survivable in my games, regardless of how many hit points the character has. Unless for example, you have a 4e Epic power that let’s you instantly come back when you die once per day. A couple of years ago we were playing such a game, having a battle at the top of a 200’ tall tower. The Tank fell off. Hit the ground. Stood back up, figured out that he couldn’t get back to the fight before it would be over, and instead went to the local tavern for a beer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1324 "2015-08-08T01:56:13Z")
Speaking of cinematic reality, credit to Burlew for having Belkar actually take damage from being thrown through a window. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1325 "2015-08-08T02:17:20Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > mmmm… barbarian dip. Which, as we all know, is contractually obligated to be cheese dip. Don’t anger Groo. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1326 "2015-08-08T03:21:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Speaking of cinematic reality, credit to Burlew for having Belkar actually take damage from being thrown through a window. Elan wouldn’t, though, because he [really does operate on cinematic reality](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1327 "2015-08-09T04:34:03Z")
The Oots forum seems to think that Belkar could either live or die in terms of his HP and the damage he has sustained. The narrative favors survival of course, prophesy notwithstanding. > [@Jophiel](#): > > What’s up with Belkar in panel #9? He seems to be tripping or stumbling. Artistic license with the _[Protection from Evil](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm)_ amulet? While I can see it causing discomfort, nothing in the spell description indicates that it actually incapacitates or wounds evil creatures who are in contact with the effect. One poster speculated that the pain inflicted by the amulet implies that he needs to make a save every round and he stumbled when he missed one of his rolls. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1328 "2015-08-09T05:39:28Z")
A save vs what though? The gnome who sold it said that it was just a standard _Protection from Evil_ and nothing in that spell’s effect would cause that to happen. Frankly, there’s no in-game rule saying that it should even cause discomfort (except maybe to a summoned creature since the spell actively repulses those) and it’d make reasonable sense for even an evil cleric to cast it upon himself before fighting a vampire, assuming his deity allows it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1329 "2015-08-09T07:30:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I usually have a house rule that, after a certain point, falling is just instant death, with no dice rolls required, unless the player has something that could plausibly (and I have a pretty flexible definition of plausible) allow them to survive. A fall like the one Belkar just took would generally not be survivable in my games, regardless of how many hit points the character has. > > I have a similar rule for falling into lava. Then you shouldn’t run D&D games. A level 20 Barbarian can survive a fall at terminal velocity onto rock for the same reason a level 20 Wizard can cast Meteor Swarm. Screwing over players who choose to play physically superhuman characters and not just explicitly magical characters on the basis that they should be no more capable than ordinary people is just obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1330 "2015-08-09T07:37:51Z")
Jophiel: I see in strip [969](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0969.html) that the amulet caused Belkar intense pain when activated. (Also featured were the yellow supersayan field as well as the white streamers.) D&D has pain rules, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1331 "2015-08-09T07:58:24Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Jophiel: I see in strip [969](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0969.html) that the amulet caused Belkar intense pain when activated. (Also featured were the yellow supersayan field as well as the white streamers.) D&D has pain rules, doesn’t it? Yeees. For a given value of “has rules”. Which is to say there’s a pain-causing \*spell \*that does a thing (namely -4 to most rolls on account of mind-rending agony), and the DM can improvise from there :). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1332 "2015-08-09T09:39:18Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Then you shouldn’t run D&D games. A level 20 Barbarian can survive a fall at terminal velocity onto rock for the same reason a level 20 Wizard can cast Meteor Swarm. Screwing over players who choose to play physically superhuman characters and not just explicitly magical characters on the basis that they should be no more capable than ordinary people is just obnoxious. I’ve been running a campaign every Sunday for more than five years, and I haven’t had any complaints yet. Everyone at my table knows the rules I’m playing with, and none of them object to them. If they did, I wouldn’t use them. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1333 "2015-08-09T09:41:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’ve been running a campaign every Sunday for more than five years, and I haven’t had any complaints yet. Everyone at my table knows the rules I’m playing with, and none of them object to them. If they did, I wouldn’t use them. **So you can fuck off with your suggestions about how I run my game, cream puff**. Wait, what? 😕 ETA: Oops, I see **Miller** has thought better of it and now I appear to be putting words into his mouth. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1334 "2015-08-09T09:48:56Z")
Yeah, I thought better of it, but thanks for leaving the quote up there for everyone to see anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1335 "2015-08-09T09:59:21Z")
Sorry. I’ve been glad of a second thought or two in my time and if I’d noticed you were still well within the edit window I might have been kinder just to afford you the same courtesy. Incidentally, [Sheldon Cooper]is it possible that your thanks are insincere?[/Sheldon Cooper] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1336 "2015-08-09T10:05:37Z")
Well, since it’s up there now, **Grumman** , I apologize for the insult. It wasn’t appropriate for the thread, or for my position as a moderator. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1337 "2015-08-09T12:04:54Z")
Despite my hair-trigger reaction to **Miller** ’s profanity, I’m actually with him on the falling-damage thing. Heroic-fantasy stories don’t usually allow the likes of Conan or any other warrior type, even those who routinely come off better in a fight with an insane demigod, to just look over the edge of a precipice and say “Eh. I’ll walk away from this” before stepping into a terminal-velocity plummet. Admittedly there was one point during _The One Tree_ where some character or other was looking down from a city wall at a battle taking place on the ground below, and I instinctively found myself thinking that they could just jump down there and pile in because they ought to be able to take about 6d6 damage and shrug it off. But drama works better if you figure that most humans can’t pull off that kind of stunt, and even in an RPG a lot of character types will - or ought to - splat if they try to jump that far. (IIRC Castellan Lebbick tries something of the sort towards the close of _The Mirror of Her Dreams_, but he lands badly injured and isn’t badass enough to survive the combat.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1338 "2015-08-09T13:28:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Jophiel: I see in strip [969](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0969.html) that the amulet caused Belkar intense pain when activated. (Also featured were the yellow supersayan field as well as the white streamers.) D&D has pain rules, doesn’t it? As mentioned, certain spells may say that they cause pain and apply a negative penalty as a result. But Protection from Evil isn’t one of them. Saying that the amulet causes discomfort as a story device is one thing, using it as a reason for in-game penalties is a lot different. Mind you, I ask only for the meta-game of puzzling out the game mechanics used in OotS, not to imply that Burlew needs to get fired for that blunder 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1339 "2015-08-09T16:03:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I have a similar rule for falling into lava. You may be interested in [Lava and Brimstone: A Comprehensive Guide to Lava, Magma, and Superheated Rock](http://www.scratchfactory.com/Resources/LavaBanners/LavaRules.pdf) (note: pdf). It’s an award-winning supplement written by some friends of mine, that truly explains how to handle lava in d20 systems, as well as containing an appendix that modifies their lava rules for over a dozen over RPG systems. It’s probably the best gaming supplement I’ve ever read–and best of all, it’s free. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1340 "2015-08-09T16:09:36Z")
Aw, hell. I know I said it gave cross-system rules for over a dozen systems, but that was my poor memory. It really only gives rules for D20 and World of Darkness. I think maybe they were considering a supplement to explain how to use their lava rules in GURPS, Shadowrun, Dread, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=68)