# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1361 "2015-08-10T15:20:41Z")
Well, that was a plot twist I did not see coming. I get the pro and con sides (pro being, destroy the snarl before it kills more gods, con being killing all the followers), which has got to be quite the conflict of interest for those clerics. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1362 "2015-08-10T15:36:27Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Well, that was a plot twist I did not see coming. > > I get the pro and con sides (pro being, destroy the snarl before it kills more gods, con being killing all the followers), which has got to be quite the conflict of interest for those clerics. The gods _can’t_ destroy the snarl - presumably it would just be confined again. But another pro is that while the gods would kill everyone they would whisk their souls away to their respective afterlives, whereas the Snarl would kill everyone AND destroy their souls AND potentially their gods as well, preventing a new world from being created. But it’s still not much of a choice, particularly given the immediate implementation timeline. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1363 "2015-08-10T15:38:16Z")
So, I take it all the clerics at the Godsmoot know about the gates, then. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1364 "2015-08-10T15:44:02Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > So, I take it all the clerics at the Godsmoot know about the gates, then. What gates? Sorry, sorry. I had to. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1365 "2015-08-10T15:47:57Z")
I wonder if the Dark One has a representative at this thing. I mean, if we have Veldrina here as a voting member, we’re obviously not restricting ourselves to the three major pantheons. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1366 "2015-08-10T16:01:57Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > If something if going to make some “Skin trying to escape” sensation and possible stat/roll penalty, you’re not going to convince me that it’s the mild AC bonus effect and not the “Can’t touch AT ALL” effect 😛 Fine–but check out the sentence after the one you quoted :). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1367 "2015-08-10T16:25:49Z")
Yeah, I’ve said the same. Having artistic narrative effects are fine. What I’m questioning is when they go beyond into in-game mechanical effects beyond what the spell actually does (mechanically). That’s what seemed to happen in the panel where Belkar stumbles. It’s not a big deal, just something to talk about since it struck me as “wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1368 "2015-08-10T16:33:28Z")
I mean, the debate makes sense. There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Snarl is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1369 "2015-08-10T16:35:49Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I wonder if the Dark One has a representative at this thing. Weren’t Redcloak’s original britches in a tight knot precisely because none of the other gods would recognize the Dark One as an equal partner in the organization ? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1370 "2015-08-10T16:39:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Weren’t Redcloak’s original britches in a tight knot precisely because none of the other gods would recognize the Dark One as an equal partner in the organization ? Yeah, and the goblinoids got the shaft as being leveling fodder for the other races. Thus the whole, use the Gate to blackmail the deities into making life better for the goblinoids plan. It just seemed that other minor deity types were being represented so it was a possibility. Of course, if the Powers That Be are attuned to the Gate situation, they probably know that there’s a powerful goblin cleric involved. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1371 "2015-08-10T17:08:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The gods _can’t_ destroy the snarl - presumably it would just be confined again. [You’re right, I was misremembering](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) > [@Jophiel](#): > > Yeah, and the goblinoids got the shaft as being leveling fodder for the other races. Thus the whole, use the Gate to blackmail the deities into making life better for the goblinoids plan. It just seemed that other minor deity types were being represented so it was a possibility. > > Of course, if the Powers That Be are attuned to the Gate situation, they probably know that there’s a powerful goblin cleric involved. I wonder if the old gods are concerned about the upstart new gods, and see the ability to wipe out the newbies as the same time they recreate prison as an added bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1372 "2015-08-10T17:20:32Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Yeah, I’ve said the same. Having artistic narrative effects are fine. What I’m questioning is when they go beyond into in-game mechanical effects beyond what the spell actually does (mechanically). That’s what seemed to happen in the panel where Belkar stumbles. Well, again, “Fanwanking it, maybe Belkar failed an athletics check compared to the wolf, and the GM described the failure as due to a twinge from the amulet.” When I run games (not so often these days), I do this sort of thing all the time. Dice determine outcome, but not description. I’ll pull in any old element I can think of to describe the action in more interesting terms. A glint off the enemy’s spear might distract the PC at a crucial moment, causing the PC to miss an attack; this despite the fact that the enemy’s spear doesn’t have any dazzle effect. It’s just more interesting to say something like that than to say, “Ooh, you rolled 28, the AC is 29, miss.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1373 "2015-08-10T17:20:51Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > So, I take it all the clerics at the Godsmoot know about the gates, then. I don’t know. Some of them might just be there as a pure mouthpiece for their boss. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1374 "2015-08-10T18:14:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Well, again, “Fanwanking it, maybe Belkar failed an athletics check compared to the wolf, and the GM described the failure as due to a twinge from the amulet.” The unique streams of smoke/steam/whatever in that panel would imply that something significant happened there, not that Belkar tripped just 'cause he generically failed a roll. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1375 "2015-08-10T19:19:02Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The unique streams of smoke/steam/whatever in that panel would imply that something significant happened there, not that Belkar tripped just 'cause he generically failed a roll. At this point I’m not sure there’s anything to support what went on behind the screen. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1376 "2015-08-10T19:33:06Z")
It would be interesting if Durkula was there to vote no on Hel’s behalf, and ended up being the decisive vote. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1377 "2015-08-10T20:10:21Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > It would be interesting if Durkula was there to vote no on Hel’s behalf, and ended up being the decisive vote. It does raise the question of what Hel’s agenda is at the conclave. Is she trying to influence the vote? Which way? She’s the Goddess of Death, but who does she want to see die, here? Does she want the vote to succeed, so millions and millions of thinking creatures die when the world is unmade? Or does she want the vote to fail, on the chance that some number of Gods might die fighting the Snarl? Having her oppose the vote could be interesting, because it could conceivably put the Order into the position of having to work with Durkula even after they find out what he really is, in order to prevent the Gods from hitting the Cosmic Undo button. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1378 "2015-08-10T20:44:11Z")
I bet it will end up being explained in the end, but it’s pretty weird that the gods are delegating this particular decision. We’ve seen the gods having various personal meetings (even among different pantheons), so why don’t they just get into a room themselves and deal with it? I guess maybe they don’t want to include deities like Hel or the Dark One, but since they’d presumably be involved in the remaking of the world anyway, it doesn’t really make sense to do it like this. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1379 "2015-08-10T20:49:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Having her oppose the vote could be interesting, because it could conceivably put the Order into the position of having to work with Durkula even after they find out what he really is, in order to prevent the Gods from hitting the Cosmic Undo button. Oots might also be on the side of Xykon on this issue, though they would oppose Redcloak. …which means MitD could be revealed in 2015 or 2016. Huh. ETA: Sheesh, I thought it would be at least a week before the next update. And I totally didn’t see a big reveal coming. Tarquin is _not_ going to be happy about this. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1380 "2015-08-10T20:56:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I bet it will end up being explained in the end, but it’s pretty weird that the gods are delegating this particular decision. We’ve seen the gods having various personal meetings (even among different pantheons), so why don’t they just get into a room themselves and deal with it? I guess maybe they don’t want to include deities like Hel or the Dark One, but since they’d presumably be involved in the remaking of the world anyway, it doesn’t really make sense to do it like this. Maybe they _are_ getting into a room by themselves. The gods don’t have the same metaphysical sort of existence as we mortals do, and details like time and space don’t mean the same thing to them as to us. Their existence is shaped by beliefs: Maybe the way to gather all of the gods into one room is by gathering their most powerful worshipers. Maybe, when we saw the gods gathering in the Crayons of Time, that was just a view of the other side of a Godsmoot. Which would also, incidentally, explain why godless clerics aren’t invited, despite being just as powerful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=68) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=70)