# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/121 "2014-04-24T17:09:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think this one’s all about showing V’s character growth. First, he’s still treating Blackwing like a person, and not a class feature. He’s interrupted while working on magic stuff, and responds immediately. Elan points out the blindingly obvious, and V thanks him for the advice with only a little snark. He waits to find out the whole situation before acting. He casts a high level offensive spell without any warm up at all, and finishes the job with a zero level spell, before going back to work without another word. > > Vaarsuvius back in book one, in the same circumstance, wouldn’t have been talking to Blackwing at all. She would have bitched about being interrupted to deal with someone else’s problem, insulted Elan for pointing out the obvious, acted immediately without listening to anyone else, and likely have spent so much time monologing before casting her spell that the ship would have crashed before she got around to it. Ifs he did get the spell off, she’d then bitch some more about being interrupted, before casting a second cone of cold to finish off the twig, because “proportional response” is something for NPC classes. Just posting to add my agreement. This strip shows us that while V hasn’t solved all of his personality problems, he’s working on them and making progress. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/122 "2014-04-24T17:18:04Z")
That’s a lot of ice on the end of an airship. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/123 "2014-04-24T17:39:13Z")
And y’know, Elan wasn’t necessarily pointing out the obvious. This is Julio Scoundrel’s ship, after all-- It probably _does_ have an option for making flames shoot out of the engines. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/124 "2014-04-24T19:30:29Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’s a lot of ice on the end of an airship. Just sayin’. It doesn’t create ice, it just [drains heat](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/coneOfCold.htm), so the only ice would be the water that rained down while the spell was going off. Which is presumably not much. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/125 "2014-04-24T20:02:09Z")
V looks weird with boots. Even when the others were drawn with boots at the end of their stick-legs, [V was “barefoot”](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0927.html). Well, I assumed wearing sandals or slippers or something. But now he has big ole honkin’ mud-kickers on. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/126 "2014-04-24T22:48:17Z")
Say, [when did Haley acquire the ability to fly?](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0932.html) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/127 "2014-04-24T23:01:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Say, [when did Haley acquire the ability to fly?](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0932.html) Between [#920](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0920.html), when V, who had one more Fly spell available, was sent to retrieve Haley and Elan, and [#921](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html), when we see Haley flying back with V, carrying Elan. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/128 "2014-04-24T23:02:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yeah, that’s basically what wizards do whenever they get free time : store the daily spell slot allowance they’re not using on paper, for later. The scroll can then be read at any time to cast the spell that had been inscribed on it, at a preset caster level. > > It costs some money and the tab runs up deceptively quick . . . Why does it cost money? Does the process involve expensive material ingredients? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/129 "2014-04-24T23:03:23Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Between [#920](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0920.html), when V, who had one more Fly spell available, was sent to retrieve Haley and Elan, and [#921](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html), when we see Haley flying back with V, carrying Elan. So, is it the kind of spell that is permanent or the kind that will wear off in a day? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/130 "2014-04-24T23:29:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why does it cost money? Does the process involve expensive material ingredients? Yeah. Well, that’s the in game reason. Really you just wouldn’t want a campaign where the wizard could spend all their free time creating a massive armament of spells to carry around with them. Of course, these are the same game rules that [give us this](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/131 "2014-04-24T23:39:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, is it the kind of spell that is permanent or the kind that will wear off in a day? If V is using the Overland Flight spell, it lasts for most of a day. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/132 "2014-04-25T00:32:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why does it cost money? Does the process involve expensive material ingredients? The in-game justification is that copying magical spells of higher magick requires magickal components to enable ritual applications of supranaturally fockused higher mental powers something something physical focus bladibladiblah. The real, metagame reason is that spellcasting classes are buff as hell, scrolls further empower them and if scrolls were free free it would totally skew what semblance of balance D&D 3.5 still has in (further) favour of CoDzilla (read : Cleric or Druid, Fuck Your Adventure Sideways Haw Haw Haw). E.g. compare a Fighter who has to annihilate an entire goblin tribe to be able to afford his first Ring of Protection +1 (congrats on popping your cherry, Fighter !) vs. a cleric who could forever scroll his Shield of Faith spell which adds 1/3 of his level to his armour class for HisClass rounds. In game, the combination of spell slot restrictions + time component makes the CoDzilla a somewhat punctual monster : he can only be a total monster for a given number of rounds per day. If he had access to infinite scrolls (which would happen if scrolls were free, since past a certain level it’s almost mundane for adventuring parties to have access to a pocket plane outside of time, and even without that there’s always a downtime period between adventures), he would be a monster all of the time. Which would make the Fighter sad. Sadder than he already is, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/133 "2014-04-25T00:41:37Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I noticed that as well - seemed like a throwaway strip compared to what came before. I suppose even Rich is allowed downtime. Agreed. This strip didn’t do a whole lot to advance the plot. Highly unusual (read: never happens) when it’s Rich. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/134 "2014-04-25T01:09:26Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Agreed. This strip didn’t do a whole lot to advance the plot. As far as we know right now. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/135 "2014-04-25T04:56:31Z")
“V, the engine’s on fire!” “And it’s not supposed to be!” “Thank you, Elan, for that key situational context.” Hee. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/136 "2014-04-25T09:21:56Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Yeah. Well, that’s the in game reason. Really you just wouldn’t want a campaign where the wizard could spend all their free time creating a massive armament of spells to carry around with them. Actually you do. It prevents the ‘15 minute day’. It also uses up XP and means that the wizard is a level or two below the non-spellcasters and that the party aren’t stymied when a particular spell is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/137 "2014-04-25T12:55:48Z")
There’s a difference between having a handy Water Walk scroll on you and having twenty Fireballs. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/138 "2014-04-25T13:29:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Actually you do. It prevents the ‘15 minute day’. Only at the cost of creating the 15 minute month. The problem of mages burning 24 hours of preparation in a few minutes of frenzied spellcasting cannot be solved simply by letting them build up more hours of preparation. You’d have to do the opposite - give them the limited ability to refresh themselves more than once every 24 hours. Maybe cantrips should only take 10 minutes to prepare, and can be prepared while performing light duties like walking rather than requiring 8 hours rest. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/139 "2014-04-25T15:22:31Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Maybe cantrips should only take 10 minutes to prepare, and can be prepared while performing light duties like walking rather than requiring 8 hours rest. Or, more generally, reduce preparation time as the difference between the caster level and the spell level increases, down to some minimum that makes it impractical to refresh them in combat. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/140 "2014-04-25T17:57:26Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > There’s a difference between having a handy Water Walk scroll on you and having twenty Fireballs. On the other hand, at fifth level, you can just make a wand of fireballs, and have _forty_ of them on you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=8)