# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/141 "2014-04-25T18:28:58Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Yeah. Well, that’s the in game reason. Really you just wouldn’t want a campaign where the wizard could spend all their free time creating a massive armament of spells to carry around with them. . . . I knew someone who made a character who specialized in creating zero level spell amulets. Since the artifact creation cost was multiplied by the level of the spell, he essentially got to do them for free. Did they come in handy for battles? No. But they sold really well almost everywhere he went and he’d use the money to buy better artifacts in the big cities. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/142 "2014-04-25T18:39:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > On the other hand, at fifth level, you can just make a wand of fireballs, and have _forty_ of them on you. Replace “fireball” with whatever. I was speaking in generics with an eye towards the non-role players in the thread. I don’t think there should really be any debate over the notion that high costs in creating magical items is intended (successfully or not) to help prevent swamping the world in cheap magic. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/143 "2014-04-25T18:40:04Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I knew someone who made a character who specialized in creating zero level spell amulets. Since the artifact creation cost was multiplied by the level of the spell, he essentially got to do them for free. > > Did they come in handy for battles? No. But they sold really well almost everywhere he went and he’d use the money to buy better artifacts in the big cities. Unless I’m mistaken, zero level spells count as level 0.5 for the purposes of determining the cost of magic items. At least in the current rules, anyway - perhaps that’s a fix they put in to prevent that kind of rules abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/144 "2014-04-25T19:00:48Z")
Yeah, but that wand costs a mint (though admittedly still a little less than 50 FB scrolls). Particularly if you don’t just want a min. level, 5d6, easy to dodge forever fireball. Free scrolls would mean Hello I got a backpack full of Maximized Empowered Widened Heightened Selective Fireballs at my max CL let’s do this. [QUOTE=Quartz] It also uses up XP and means that the wizard is a level or two below the non-spellcasters and that the party aren’t stymied when a particular spell is needed. [/QUOTE] The XP cost is also a balance feature and part of the cost of scrolls. Which does run up just as deceptively quick. (though among my groups it doesn’t really exist, because we don’t do XP. The DM simply tells us “you feel stronger” once in a while when appropriate) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/145 "2014-04-25T19:11:13Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I knew someone who made a character who specialized in creating zero level spell amulets. Since the artifact creation cost was multiplied by the level of the spell, he essentially got to do them for free. > > Did they come in handy for battles? No. But they sold really well almost everywhere he went and he’d use the money to buy better artifacts in the big cities. Friend of mine noticed that the material components of a Wall of Iron (which is permanent once cast) were dwarfed by the sale price of the amount of swords you could make with the metal. Make a few skeletons/constructs/golems to tirelessly bang out swords forever and you’ve got infinite money on one sixth level spell a day 🙂 He never used that silliness in game himself, but we did meet an NPC who had flooded and crashed the local weapons market once :). ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/146 "2014-04-25T19:23:05Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > Unless I’m mistaken, zero level spells count as level 0.5 for the purposes of determining the cost of magic items. At least in the current rules, anyway - perhaps that’s a fix they put in to prevent that kind of rules abuse. Very possibly that’s the current rules. Most of the people I know play either 3.0 or 3.5 or a mashup (or they shift to Pathfinder). And I’ve never checked his math, but he’s usually pretty accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/147 "2014-04-25T19:29:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > He never used that silliness in game himself, but we did meet an NPC who had flooded and crashed the local weapons market once :). Was he smart enough to then start selling _wands of dispel magic_? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/148 "2014-04-25T19:36:36Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Was he smart enough to then start selling _wands of dispel magic_? 😉 Doesn’t work - Wall of Iron makes real iron (Duration: instantaneous), unlike Major Creation and similar spells. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/149 "2014-04-25T20:01:43Z")
You don’t need undead smiths, either: Just use a Fabricate spell on the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/150 "2014-04-26T07:44:46Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Doesn’t work - Wall of Iron makes real iron (Duration: instantaneous), unlike Major Creation and similar spells. However, Pathfinder certainly [eliminates](http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/wallOfIron.html#_wall-of-iron)this wizard wheeze: > [@](#): > > Iron created by this spell is not suitable for use in the creation of other objects and cannot be sold. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/151 "2014-04-26T09:26:00Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > However, Pathfinder certainly [eliminates](http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/wallOfIron.html#_wall-of-iron)this wizard wheeze: That is a stupid rule and I hate them for writing it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/152 "2014-04-26T11:49:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You don’t need undead smiths, either: Just use a Fabricate spell on the wall. Doesn’t that spell only create a single item ? Either way, that’d now be two spells per day. Twelve whole seconds of exertion. Starting to sound dangerously like an actual job :). Too bad you can’t make 5th or 6th level wands, else you could have your (improved) familiar handle all that tedious busywork 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/153 "2014-04-26T16:35:24Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > That is a stupid rule and I hate them for writing it. I choose to interpret the ‘wall of iron’ as being nearly pure iron, too soft to be used for swords and armor and other purposes where you should be using steel instead. At best, you could partner with a smelter that uses your magically created iron as a raw material for making steel. Not nearly as easy as just magically fabricating swords, but still a possible source of income. At least, until the swarm of locust-mode rust monsters show up, attracted by the sudden unnatural concentration of iron. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/154 "2014-04-26T23:27:10Z")
## It might be interesting to have a world with dirt cheap pig iron. I’d imagine that dutch ovens and ship ballast would become cheap, but sword prices wouldn’t fall by all that much. And there would be a colony of angry dwarves who have lost their livelihood and have sworn eternal vengeance on the inventor. Haley doesn’t look as sexy in the new version, oddly enough: the straps cover her single-line cleavage. The additional detail of the strip takes some getting used to. * * * Check out Rich’s tweet-feed. [https://twitter.com/RichBurlew](https://twitter.com/RichBurlew) He says the detailed scenery makes drawing the strip harder, “Which is part of the point.” His thumb is still numb; he has pain and scar tissue: it’s a challenge. The Oots calendar is 50% off!! ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/155 "2014-05-03T20:15:32Z")
Sorry for the unupdated bump, but does it seem like new strips have been coming slower since his most recent break? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/156 "2014-05-03T20:37:37Z")
No, they were slow for a long time before as well. I was hoping that the hiatus between strips would be a chance to get a few done so that from our perspective several would come in rapid succession. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/157 "2014-05-03T21:14:24Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Sorry for the unupdated bump, but does it seem like new strips have been coming slower since his most recent break? It only seems slow _when somebody reminds us_. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/158 "2014-05-03T21:47:41Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Sorry for the unupdated bump, but does it seem like new strips have been coming slower since his most recent break? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It only seems slow _when somebody reminds us_. ::casually thwacks tire iron against hand while giving **Agent Foxtrot** unsympathetic stare:: ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/159 "2014-05-04T01:02:04Z")
Why is Rich adding more detail to the strips? What was wrong with what he had before? Does Book 6 or 7 have a more demanding storyline? Is the MitD impossible to convey with stick figures? I gotta say I’m enjoying it though. Gaze at the giant ship crossbow! Marvel at the bedding that Mr. Scruffy and the Extreminator are sleeping on! Wrinkles and folds on blankets! Whispier smoke! Flowing capes! Faded out characters in the background and faded out rain! \* Just throwing out questions while we wait for Rich’s next post. Another comment from last month’s twitter feed: “Roy has had his share of faults since the beginning, but he’s only now acknowledged them and how they impact his leadership.” - This is a manifestation of my graphic art freakishness, something that has always puzzled me for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/160 "2014-05-04T02:38:15Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Why is Rich adding more detail to the strips? He claims it’s just trying to expand his art. But the real sordid truth is it’s just a blatant money grab. All those [Morland miniature figures](http://morlandstudios.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=39) that people bought and painted have now been rendered obsolete. Fans will now have to buy a new set and paint them in accordance with the updated art. And Burlew will reap the royalties with each sale. Big R gotta get paid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=9)