# Order of the Stick - Book 6 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755 "2014-03-03T16:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1601 "2015-08-31T17:16:09Z")
Durkon’s AC is [in tha stratosphere](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html). Now, granted, Roy’s attack bonus is also atmospherically high, but it’s still quite plausible that he might miss occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1602 "2015-08-31T17:47:21Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Also, I wonder if a procedural execution for attacking a vampire counts as dying in battle? The other dwarfs present may not have much to lose by jumping in. The only dwarf who will get involved in the battle will be the (original) Durkon. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1603 "2015-08-31T18:41:36Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I don’t know how resistances are figured these days but the deva weighing Roy’s soul commented that he has “[halfway decent Wisdom and Charisma scores](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html)” and could have made a decent cleric. Classes have a natural progression table (typically one strong save two weak saves). Add the relevant attribute bonus (Con for Fortitude, Wis for Will and Dex for Reflex), any feat you might have and your magical doodads. Roll d20, add all that, try to beat the effects assigned DC. Honestly, the comic sort of oversells innate vampiric domination. It’s a fixed 14 DC which the vampire cannot increase in ways I’m aware (there might be gimmicky feats in some splat book or other I guess), which at these levels should only really fail on a 1 from the PCs (even Belkar !). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1604 "2015-08-31T18:56:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Honestly, the comic sort of oversells innate vampiric domination. It’s a fixed 14 DC which the vampire cannot increase in ways I’m aware (there might be gimmicky feats in some splat book or other I guess), which at these levels should only really fail on a 1 from the PCs (even Belkar !). I think it’s a Cha-based save, meaning that a vamp with high CHA will have a higher save on this. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1605 "2015-08-31T19:13:56Z")
I missed 3/3,5 completely but the d20 SDR link - [Vampire :: d20srd.org](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) has this bit > [@](#): > > Dominate (Su) > A vampire can crush an opponent’s will just by looking onto his or her eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack, except that the vampire must use a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire’s influence as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 12th). The ability has a range of 30 feet. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1606 "2015-08-31T20:03:00Z")
Didn’t Roy’s sword have a greenish glow, or green flames, or sumthin? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1607 "2015-08-31T20:12:59Z")
I was wondering why the swords anti-undead effect had not appeared but I figure it’s being saved for a dramatically appropriate moment. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1608 "2015-08-31T20:22:40Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Honestly, the comic sort of oversells innate vampiric domination. It’s a fixed 14 DC which the vampire cannot increase in ways I’m aware (there might be gimmicky feats in some splat book or other I guess), which at these levels should only really fail on a 1 from the PCs (even Belkar !). I’m not sure where you’re getting that. The saving throw for a vampire’s _Dominate_ ability, in both 3.x and Pathfinder, is equal to 10 + 1/2 the vampire’s HD + its CHA mod. (And vampires get an automatic +4 to CHA when they turn.) Dukon’s 13th level at bare minimum (to cast _Resurrection_) and probably a few levels higher than that. Vamp Durkon, with the vampire stat bonus, probably has a CHA around sixteen or so, which makes a save DC of at least 19 or 20, and probably higher. Assuming the same minimum level, and a WIS score of 14-16 (since the Deva described it as “decent” when Roy was dead), Roy’s rocking a +6 or 7 on Will saves, assuming no other feats or items designed to pump it up. That’s less than a 50% chance of making it - a pretty significant threat. Edit: You’re thinking of vampire _spawn_, not a full fledged vampire like Durkon. Vampire spawn’s _dominate_ ability is pegged to 14, regardless of other considerations. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1609 "2015-08-31T20:41:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not sure where you’re getting that. The saving throw for a vampire’s _Dominate_ ability, in both 3.x and Pathfinder, is equal to 10 + 1/2 the vampire’s HD + its CHA mod. (And vampires get an automatic +4 to CHA when they turn.) Dukon’s 13th level at bare minimum (to cast _Resurrection_) and probably a few levels higher than that. Vamp Durkon, with the vampire stat bonus, probably has a CHA around sixteen or so, which makes a save DC of at least 19 or 20, and probably higher. Assuming the same minimum level, and a WIS score of 14-16 (since the Deva described it as “decent” when Roy was dead), Roy’s rocking a +6 or 7 on Will saves, assuming no other feats or items designed to pump it up. That’s less than a 50% chance of making it - a pretty significant threat. > > Edit: You’re thinking of vampire _spawn_, not a full fledged vampire like Durkon. Vampire spawn’s _dominate_ ability is pegged to 14, regardless of other considerations. I’d estimate his WIS at 14: higher than that would be better than halfway decent, IMO, but lower would make it hard to be a cleric. But I’d also guess he’s got Iron Will, giving him a +2 on will saves (this is generally an excellent feat for fighters and rogues, for whom a middling-low roll on a will save can drastically change an encounter), and probably a cloak of resistance +3 or +4, since this is such a good item. My guess would be he’s talking about a will save of +11 or so: still not enough to give him confidence on this save, but not bad, either. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1610 "2015-08-31T20:45:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not sure where you’re getting that. The saving throw for a vampire’s _Dominate_ ability, in both 3.x and Pathfinder, is equal to 10 + 1/2 the vampire’s HD + its CHA mod. (And vampires get an automatic +4 to CHA when they turn.) Dukon’s 13th level at bare minimum (to cast _Resurrection_) and probably a few levels higher than that. Vamp Durkon, with the vampire stat bonus, probably has a CHA around sixteen or so, which makes a save DC of at least 19 or 20, and probably higher. Assuming the same minimum level, and a WIS score of 14-16 (since the Deva described it as “decent” when Roy was dead), Roy’s rocking a +6 or 7 on Will saves, assuming no other feats or items designed to pump it up. That’s less than a 50% chance of making it - a pretty significant threat. > > Edit: You’re thinking of vampire _spawn_, not a full fledged vampire like Durkon. Vampire spawn’s _dominate_ ability is pegged to 14, regardless of other considerations. Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the correction (and a timely one too, since my motley band of PCs is soon to face a vamp nest that I’ll get around to designing any day now) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1611 "2015-08-31T21:09:40Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Didn’t Roy’s sword have a greenish glow, or green flames, or sumthin? Not that I ever saw before. He’s Roy Green **hilt.** ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1612 "2015-08-31T21:19:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not that I ever saw before. He’s Roy Green **hilt.** [“It is likely that your sword will sometimes glow with a deadly green energy that is particularly harmful to the undead.”](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1613 "2015-08-31T21:28:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [“It is likely that your sword will sometimes glow with a deadly green energy that is particularly harmful to the undead.”](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) Ah. Well, then, why isn’t it glowing for a fight with a vampire? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1614 "2015-08-31T21:40:32Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1615 "2015-08-31T21:53:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ah. Well, then, why isn’t it glowing for a fight with a vampire? “sometimes” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1616 "2015-08-31T21:59:25Z")
Yeah, the sword’s glow isn’t activated by undead, it’s something that just occasionally happens. And I hadn’t picked up on this before, but the glow is deadly to \*anything \*- it’s just extra damaging to undead. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1617 "2015-08-31T22:00:53Z")
Right. The green glow sometimes happens, with the precise conditions for it happening being unclear (it might be when he scores a critical hit, but that’s just speculation). When it does happen, it’s particularly dangerous to undead. It has, however, also happened to non-undead targets. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1618 "2015-09-01T10:21:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Right. The green glow sometimes happens, with the precise conditions for it happening being unclear (it might be when he scores a critical hit, but that’s just speculation). When it does happen, it’s particularly dangerous to undead. It has, however, also happened to non-undead targets. Evidence against the Critical-Hit Theory is that, up until the current strip, it happened all but two times when attacking undead and only three times when attacking not-undead (including inanimate objects). It’s possible the Critical-Hit Theory is right when not striking undead, but it’s highly unlikely he made that high a percentage of criticals (including 5 in a row [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html)) against undead. I’ve seen speculation that it only happens when Roy grimaces while striking. But he grimaces [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0441.html) when he chops the head off the zombie dragon and no green light. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1619 "2015-09-02T00:42:36Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I was wondering why the swords anti-undead effect had not appeared but I figure it’s being saved for a dramatically appropriate moment. Maybe. The within-comic reason might have to do with the determination of the sword wielder. Roy’s determination is compromised by the lingering effects of dominate. (For 1 round?). I see from the aerial battle with Xykon that once this +5 sword is activated, it tends to glow with every swing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755/1620 "2015-09-02T09:44:09Z")
What happens if you cast Resurrect on an undead? Sure, normally you’re too busy avoiding being eaten by them to stand and chant for ten minutes but there are a lot of high-powered clerics in the room and Durkon can’t attack any of them. And it’s not clear whether Resurrect would constitute an attack, particularly as the original Durkon would be all in favor of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-6-discussion-thread/682755.md?page=82)