# Order of the Stick book 7 discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438 "2020-02-03T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2344 "2025-03-11T17:42:36Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > and why the Gods do it Because the outsiders “go a bit nuts” if they don’t. [#1147](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1147.html) ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2345 "2025-03-11T19:09:25Z")
My God, that’s what they are. They’re demons who went a “little bit nuts” from this knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2346 "2025-03-11T23:28:36Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Granted they’re not working with a full knowledge but this just seems like a dumb plan. If the last Gate is broken, the gods will just remake the world again anyway so the outsiders will get wiped. Only by keeping the Snarl confined do they get to keep their memories intact. The goal isn’t to keep their memories intact. The goal is to get revenge for having their memories tampered with. Given that goal, their plan is a rational way to achieve it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2347 "2025-03-11T23:46:57Z")
Also, they may be trying to kill the gods. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2348 "2025-03-11T23:49:48Z")
Yeah, I was taking that as a given. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2025, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2349 "2025-03-12T00:07:45Z")
…Some more thought. I’m trying to find the strip where Tiamat calls up the IFCC, and the one who talks to her has to promise to kill an equivalent number of metallic dragons, to appease her. “Shouldn’t be a problem, if our plan goes through”, or something to that effect. At the time, the assumption was that “our plan” would involve gaining phenomenal cosmic power… but it’d also make sense if “our plan” involved killing Tiamat, so she wouldn’t need to be appeased. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2025, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2350 "2025-03-12T00:41:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m trying to find the strip where Tiamat calls up the IFCC, and the one who talks to her has to promise to kill an equivalent number of metallic dragons, to appease her [Moving the Pieces](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2025, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2351 "2025-03-12T00:58:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m trying to find the strip where Tiamat calls up the IFCC, and the one who talks to her has to promise to kill an equivalent number of metallic dragons, to appease her. “Shouldn’t be a problem, if our plan goes through”, or something to that effect. At the time, the assumption was that “our plan” would involve gaining phenomenal cosmic power… but it’d also make sense if “our plan” involved killing Tiamat, so she wouldn’t need to be appeased. It’d also make sense if they were planning on bringing about the death of oh so many dragons. No, more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2025, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2352 "2025-03-12T01:13:02Z")
If the gods can’t escape the Snarl, I doubt whether outsiders can. I don’t doubt that the fiends might take that gamble, given their limited grasp of the situation. I’m not sure how Nale should react to this. I mean destroying the world will put him more than one-up on his father. But he’s also tired of over-elaborate schemes and is properly skeptical about working for the trio. The smart move would be to agree and slow roll the process, taking time to assemble information. But Nale hasn’t grown _that_ much wiser. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2353 "2025-03-24T15:31:24Z")
**[1321: Subject to Change](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1321.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2354 "2025-03-24T16:22:58Z")
Never saw this coming. I knew they had something up their sleeves, but this is way bigger than anything I thought. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2355 "2025-03-24T16:45:12Z")
There is one minor contradiction. Back in [#1183](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1183.html), one of the fiends says something about the gods doing their work for them. But their scheme requires that the gods not do their work of destroying the current world. Because then the gods would have absorbed all the souls. They need the Snarl to destroy those souls, so the gods are weakened. There’s a hole in their scheme. They don’t mention how they’re going to avoid the memory wipe. I expect the wipe happens immediately after the world is destroyed, no matter if the Snarl or the gods do the destroying. At any rate, this isn’t the first or even the second time around this block for the gods. I’m sure this kind of revolt has happened before and the gods know how to handle it. In fact, that’s probably the real reason for the memory wipe. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2356 "2025-03-24T16:51:23Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There’s a hole in their scheme. They don’t mention how they’re going to avoid the memory wipe. I expect the wipe happens immediately after the world is destroyed, no matter if the Snarl or the gods do the destroying. I think they’re betting that the gods, not having had time to harvest the souls on the prime material before the Snarl destroys it, won’t have enough power left to mind wipe all the outsiders. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2357 "2025-03-24T17:37:28Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > this is way bigger than anything I thought. Well, he’s has a _long_ time to think up this stuff. It’s so much better than, “Because we can.” “We get a lot of graphics designers down here,” \>snerk\< I especially liked _Something new every day literally forever_. After all, heaven is perfection and there is only one perfection. As Talking Heads said, _There is a party, everyone is there_ _Everyone will leave at exactly the same time_ _When this party’s over, it will start again_ _Will not be any different, will be exactly the same_ _Oh, Heaven_ _Heaven is a place_ _A place where nothing_ _Nothing ever happens_ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2358 "2025-03-24T19:17:50Z")
Just a recap to see if I’ve got the various levels of knowledge straight. Level O: Not being aware that the Snarl exists. Most beings are here. Level 1: The Snarl exists. It can be captured and used. This is where Xykon is. Level 2: The Snarl exists and destroyed the world once. The Gods rebuilt the world and trapped the Snarl. This is where the Order of the Scribble and the Inter-Fiend Cooperation Commission are at. Level 3: The Snarl has actually destroyed the world multiple times and the Gods have rebuilt it each time. The Gods cannot permanently trap the Snarl because they only possess three colors of power (since the destruction of the Eastern Pantheon) and the Snarl has four. Some of the Gods (like Hel) know this. This is where Redcloak was. Level 4: All of Level 3 plus the knowledge that a fourth color now exists with the Dark One so the Snarl can be potentially permanently defeated. Most of the Gods know this. Redcloak has been told this but questions it. Level 5: All of Level 4 plus the knowledge that there is a world inside the Snarl. Only the Order of the Stick knows this. Thor and Odin have heard this but don’t understand it. Have I got it all correct? Am I missing some levels? ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2359 "2025-03-24T19:21:17Z")
What is _with_ the world inside the Snarl, anyway? We still don’t know anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2360 "2025-03-24T19:34:06Z")
Well, we know it’s beautiful. And you forgot Level 6, the level that Burlew is at. Or maybe 7 or 8. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2361 "2025-03-24T19:49:32Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There is one minor contradiction. Back in [#1183](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1183.html), one of the fiends says something about the gods doing their work for them. But their scheme requires that the gods not do their work of destroying the current world. Because then the gods would have absorbed all the souls. They need the Snarl to destroy those souls, so the gods are weakened. On thinking about this some more, it’s evidence that the IFCC are lying to Nale about their actual plan. It’s probably mostly what they’re planning on but there’s a few details they aren’t revealing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2362 "2025-03-24T19:54:28Z")
The two keys to success: 1: Never tell them everything you know. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2363 "2025-03-25T00:45:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Have I got it all correct? Am I missing some levels? Level 6 is where the Snarl is. It either made the world. Or it _is_ the world [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=119)