# Order of the Stick book 7 discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438 "2020-02-03T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2424 "2025-05-23T14:10:30Z")
1326 - [Back Up Top](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1326.html) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2425 "2025-05-23T14:17:22Z")
There’s a weird sense of dread I had at the end of the Empire of Blood plotline. Even way back in Azure City, the party talked about how killing Nale and Thog would just mean Sabine resurrects them and they’re back to hunting the party a week later. The idea of a villain who you could beat and even kill, but who would just come back anyways - there was something deeply horrifying about that. And then Nale was killed, in a way that really felt final. And I thought, “Good riddance!”. And now, so many years later, he’s back after all. I’m… Not sure how I feel about that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2426 "2025-05-23T15:00:47Z")
Oh look - a dagger with a crooked hilt. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2427 "2025-05-23T15:08:03Z")
Good catch. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2428 "2025-05-23T15:16:25Z")
What’s the significance of that? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2429 "2025-05-23T15:20:54Z")
There was a squiggly shape in the fountain that some speculated was a curved dagger ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2430 "2025-05-23T15:21:14Z")
I think the dagger was previously seen in the fountain. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2431 "2025-05-23T15:25:42Z")
Got it–once 1324 per the long discussion earlier. Looks like ripples not needed! ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2432 "2025-05-23T15:54:37Z")
That scroll Sabine reads says: “nonspecific devil summoning spell!” ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2433 "2025-05-23T16:40:47Z")
Nale was expecting something more “baroque”… honestly, he should not complain. He is Bach in the mortal world, what more can he ask for? He is not in a fugue state, and this invention of the IFCC will definitely give him the leading voice going forward. Although, counterpoint: I think that if he does not act in concert with Sabine, he won’t reach a proper resolution. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2434 "2025-05-23T18:05:34Z")
You keep up that punning and violins may ensue. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2435 "2025-05-24T00:22:56Z")
Presumably, the wicked-looking sword is the conduit through which the Fountain’s power is channeled to a particular fiend. Which, of course, makes it a grade-A Macguffin, ready to be stolen by Chekov. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2436 "2025-05-24T15:03:22Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > You keep up that punning and violins may ensue. Too hard to Handel? ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2437 "2025-05-24T17:33:47Z")
Now I am asking myself… Nale is a minor devil… So, inside that body of his, does he have any organ? Does he even have a spinal chord? Also, can he act in consonance with his former wishes and impulses, or is his will now subtly keyed to the wishes and impulses of the IFCC? Will he really accept being second fiddle to his new masters? Nale never struck me as being particularly sharp, but I have to say that he definitely is not a flat character in this story. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2438 "2025-06-05T15:20:58Z")
**[Tooth or Consequences](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1327.html)** ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2439 "2025-06-05T16:17:32Z")
So, Thog _did_ die in the arena collapse, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2440 "2025-06-05T18:03:06Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Now I am asking myself… Nale is a minor devil… > > So, inside that body of his, does he have any organ? Does he even have a spinal chord? Fiends usually still have internal organs. They are living creatures, they just come into existence in a… non-standard way. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2441 "2025-06-05T19:28:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They are living creatures, they just come into existence in a… non-standard way. Are they? I think infernals and celestials and more corporeal concepts than actual living beings. They can have organs if they’re designed that way, but they don’t actually need them. Their bodies are just something the outer planes build to dress their essence. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2442 "2025-06-05T19:45:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Are they? I think infernals and celestials and more corporeal concepts than actual living beings. They can have organs if they’re designed that way, but they don’t actually need them. Their bodies are just something the outer planes build to dress their essence. They can be both things! Mechanically, they’re absolutely alive. They can be targeted by spells like _slay living_, and they’re healed by positive energy and harmed by negative energy, which are usually hall marks of things being “alive.” And they definitely (mostly\*) have organs - otherwise, you can’t have spell components like “heart of a demon,” which is a sufficiently standard fantasy trope that it can be assumed to exist in any D&D setting unless specifically ruled out. But, I’d say their organs don’t have the same functions that they have in mortals, and probably more closely resemble medieval conceptions of what these organs do. A celestial’s heart, for example, is probably not a pump, so much as the seat of their righteous spirit, or something. Cutting out an angel’s heart might kill it, or it might turn the angel evil, because they’re “heartless” now and “being heartless” is a metaphor for being cruel or evil. \*“Mostly,” because there are outsiders who are clouds of smoke, or balls of light, or other shapes that would seem to preclude any sort of “internal organ.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/2443 "2025-06-05T19:48:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But, I’d say their organs don’t have the same functions that they have in mortals, and probably more closely resemble medieval conceptions of what these organs do. A celestial’s heart, for example, is probably not a pump, so much as the seat of their righteous spirit, or something. Cutting out an angel’s heart might kill it, or it might turn the angel evil, because they’re “heartless” now and “being heartless” is a metaphor for being cruel or evil. Right. And if a demon doesn’t eat, it’ll get hungry - maybe VERY hungry - but it’ll never starve to death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=123)