# Order of the Stick book 7 discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438 "2020-02-03T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Flopnoodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ad7895/32.png) [@Flopnoodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flopnoodle)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/301 "2020-07-07T02:22:41Z")
Staying in that exact place feels like a planned countermove. Suppose the countermove is Minrah dropping a gigantic-ass rock on the area? Dirk on wouldn’t mind because he’s already seen Thor, knows the long game, and Minrah May have enough to actually Raise him. Who amongst the Evil team would do the same for Redcloak? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/302 "2020-07-07T04:13:48Z")
I don’t think Durkon wants to kill Redcloak. I think he wants Redcloak to get a message to the Dark One that the other gods really want him to be an important god, the center of a pantheon. Because they need his quidity. ---
**Author:** ![Flopnoodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ad7895/32.png) [@Flopnoodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flopnoodle)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/303 "2020-07-07T04:19:50Z")
No no no, it’s just the threat of it that matters. But yeah, you’re right, that would be coloring outside the liNES for him ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/304 "2020-07-07T09:22:38Z")
I love how Durkon is trying to make Redcloak feel better about not having had a face-to-face with his god. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/305 "2020-07-07T10:19:50Z")
I have to say, Durkon’s courtesy towards clerics of evil deities has bit him in the neck before. Let’s hope he’s a bit wiser. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/306 "2020-07-07T13:21:35Z")
Roy forgot most of what he did in the afterlife. Durkon remembers everything. Is that just because Durkon never made it to Valhalla, which he would have forgotten? Because meeting your God is inherently memorable? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/307 "2020-07-07T13:27:49Z")
Could be as simple as Thor saying, “Fuck that ‘forgetting’ nonsense. You, beard-boy! You will remember this because I will it.” A perpetually drunk god is still a god, after all. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/308 "2020-07-07T13:32:33Z")
Sure. And Thor is a popular, and thus powerful, god. I just wondered if that had ever been explained or if there were “rules” I was missing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/309 "2020-07-07T13:34:52Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Roy forgot most of what he did in the afterlife. Durkon remembers everything. Is that just because Durkon never made it to Valhalla, which he would have forgotten? IIRC, Roy _did_ remember his time on the cloud near the gates to Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/310 "2020-07-07T14:08:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > IIRC, Roy _did_ remember his time on the cloud near the gates to Heaven. Yeah, it was mostly his time in Celestia that Roy forgot about. I feel like he largely remembered his time in the clouds. Durkon never entered Valhalla. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/311 "2020-07-07T14:34:41Z")
Roy also remembered the Oracle’s message, observed posthumously. It’s only the stuff on the other side of the gates he (mostly) forgot, apart from the cool new sword move. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/312 "2020-07-07T14:43:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > apart from the cool new sword move And even _that_ he mistakenly thought was his idea for a cool new move rather than remembering that he learned it while deceased. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/313 "2020-07-07T18:19:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …I feel that both sides have concealed plans. > > I don’t feel Redcloak would turn reasonable this quickly, I feel he’s just acting reasonable to distract Durkon while some ambush is set up. Perhaps via the bugbear who was sent off. In the last strip, Redcloak said he was expecting some emissary from the other gods to appear at some point so he would have been making plans for it. > > And I feel that when Redcloak’s ambush is revealed, Durkon will reveal his own countermove. We still haven’t seen Minrah. And Durkon insisted on them talking outdoors in the location he appeared at. > > After both sides have revealed their secret plans and achieved a standoff I can see that. RC’s demeanor reminds me of him sadly and humbly agreeing with Tsukiko in his sanctuary, right up until he decided she had to die. And I do think that going with RC to another location to discuss matters, would’ve ended really badly for Durkon. I can’t see things progressing here beyond putting a seed of doubt in RC’s head about the necessity of The Plan in achieving The Dark One’s goals, and of course, whether RC will even entertain any possible course of action besides The Plan. Lot of different ways this story can go from here. What if Xykon is watching this meeting surreptitiously? What if he starts to suspect that RC isn’t good with being ‘the bitch’ in their relationship any more? Xykon doesn’t need The Plan after all; he just needs something to stave off boredom. I think Minrah’s got his hammer, and some way of yanking Durkon out of there that requires direct line of sight to know when to do it. I really like Chronos’s suggestion of Refuge, but there’s probably an easier way to accomplish the goal. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/314 "2020-07-07T19:05:39Z")
Of course, from Durkon’s perspective, there’s no real downside to dying. So long as he can get Thor’s message to The Dark One, he will have succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/315 "2020-07-07T19:24:55Z")
I think Durkon needs to bring out his most effective argument; that the Dark One is vulnerable to the end of the universe. Redcloak may not care about a threat to any outsider but I do think he would be moved by a threat to his god. As for Xykon, he represents a vulnerability for Redcloak. Redcloak needs him. But Redcloak must also be aware that his enemies can end his plan simply by talking to Xykon. Redcloak has to keep Xykon isolated from any outside contacts that he doesn’t control. And while it’s never been explicitly mentioned, I feel Xykon has another hold on Redcloak. I feel he has cast a spell on Redcloak that makes it impossible for him to lie to Xykon. If you go back to when Redcloak killed Tsukiko, notice how he reports this to Xykon afterwards ([832](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0832.html) and [833](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html)). It would have obviously been easier for him to make up a story but he very carefully says nothing that isn’t technically true. His misdirects Xykon but he never lies to him. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/316 "2020-07-07T19:35:06Z")
Is there magic in 3.5 that can detect falsehoods, and that RC couldn’t ward himself against? I would have thought that Xykon would have a sky high Sense Motive, from how he’s been written, but that skill keys off Wisdom, and Sorcerers don’t get a bump to it. Does Xykon strike anyone as especially Wise, anyway? Great insights into ‘human nature’ and manipulation, but that’s not the same thing. OTOH, his Diplomacy skill is probably nearly as Epic as he is. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/317 "2020-07-08T02:21:55Z")
Serious question. Does anyone else try to remember exactly when they started reading the OOTS epic, and realize they no longer have any real memory? I can search back and find my first post in an OOTS thread here , which gives an upper bound. And I know I was not reading in the very beginning. But I have read through the whole comic several times, but honestly have no damn idea where the story was when I first stumbled across it, which is kinda freaky. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/318 "2020-07-08T02:30:07Z")
I don’t remember the exact number, but I’m pretty sure it was within a couple strips of Familicide. (To be fair, that’s a pretty memorable thing to start on). ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/319 "2020-07-08T02:36:40Z")
Interesting note, while I am not having much success finding my earliest post here, The earliest thread I can find is 2009 > [@Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096): > > Ok, I’m now convinced that Burlew has indeed planned out the whole story arc. Today’s comic, [number 628](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0628.html) brings in a character obliquely referenced once [440 comics earlier](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0188.html).and again in [strip #572.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html) Could this be what causes V to crack? Also, V has kids? ETA Aha I have cracked the Matrix, post 810 in teh above was my first reference here, that is now the upper bound 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/320 "2020-07-08T21:37:12Z")
I first started reading when the strip was somewhere around number 700. I think they were out in the desert at the time. I can’t go by my first post about it here, because I didn’t discover threads about it here until quite a bit later. My first post on the other forum would put an upper limit on it, but that would be a lot of work to research for little gain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=17)