# Order of the Stick book 7 discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438 "2020-02-03T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/942 "2021-05-06T15:35:28Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Yeah, but maybe it’s a point worth explicitly bringing up before getting into “Well, maybe Hitler has a few good points about the fairness of post-WWI reparations” territory. I’d say he’s less Adolf Hitler and more Võ Nguyên Giáp. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/943 "2021-05-07T02:31:32Z")
Giap wasn’t evil, though. Johnson, Nixon, and Westmorland were the evil ones in that atrocity. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/944 "2021-05-07T02:39:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Jophiel](#): > > > > I don’t know exactly what Fenris could have done after the fact, but Thor’s remark that Fenris got bored and ignored the goblins for his more “fun” monsters implies that Fenris had _some_ options to neglect. > > True. But I think there’s a substantial difference between the goblins being abandoned by their creator, who had intended them to thrive, and the goblins being created with no intent except to serve as cannon fodder for other races. Yeah, that was the point I was trying to get at. You made it much more clearly and succinctly. To me, that was Redcloak’s main argument, and it’s not correct. In my mind, the better wording would be something more like “I think Redcloak actually has a point.” Or even “Redcloak has a legitimate grievance.” But I think I do get why Durkon said it the way he did. It just wasn’t what I was expecting. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/945 "2021-05-07T03:54:54Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Yeah, but maybe it’s a point worth explicitly bringing up before getting into “Well, maybe Hitler has a few good points about the fairness of post-WWI reparations” territory. Not to go off on a complete sidetrack, but no he didn’t. The Germans complained like hell about the terms of the Versailles treaty and created the impression they were unreasonable by constantly saying so. But it’s not really true. The terms of the treaty were actually quite reasonable, including the reparations which were based on the same formula that the Germans had used when they defeated France in 1870. Germany ended up paying far higher reparations after WWII but they didn’t make an issue out of it that time. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/946 "2021-05-07T03:57:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The terms of the treaty were actually quite reasonable That’s okay, Redcloak isn’t accurate in his description of how/why goblins got their place either 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/947 "2021-05-07T07:01:48Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Giap wasn’t evil, though. Johnson, Nixon, and Westmorland were the evil ones in that atrocity. Tell that to the guys in the tiger cages. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/948 "2021-05-07T13:42:32Z")
The men who should never have been there in the first place, who were burning civilians alive with napalm and white phosphorus? Giap did some brutal things I’m not going to defend but he was fighting a desperate war for freedom against an overwhelmingly powerful enemy. If he was Redcloak, Westmorland, McNamara et al were Xykon. But I don’t want a hijack so this will be my last word on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/949 "2021-05-07T14:21:14Z")
Man, I held off on making any real world comparisons because I knew people would just get hung up on “Well, _actually_…” but ultimately convinced myself that Hitler was generic enough to make the point. Should have listened to my first thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/950 "2021-05-07T20:48:26Z")
[Moderating] Let’s save the direct real-world comparisons to Great Debates, please. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/951 "2021-05-17T14:52:14Z")
Comic #1234 up and in order. [I Mean Geeeeeeeeez (now with less eeeeeee)](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1234.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/952 "2021-05-17T14:54:01Z")
This brings a whole new meaning to “Critical Race Theory”. ---
**Author:** ![CardboardBoxx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardboardboxx/32/7079_2.png) [@CardboardBoxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CardboardBoxx)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/953 "2021-05-17T14:55:49Z")
Blerk, what a mealy mouthed wokefest of a strip. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/954 "2021-05-17T15:02:46Z")
This is an unusually … political strip. But I don’t think it’s just political. I think it also drives the plot. Ultimately, it seems that Our Heroes need to work with Redcloak to persuade the Dark One to work with the rest of the Gods to re-bind the snarl. This is another lever to push them in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/955 "2021-05-17T15:06:52Z")
Loving it. The woker the better. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/956 "2021-05-17T15:13:06Z")
I don’t think Roy and Durkon (and company) need to think too hard about what it’s going to take to completely upend the entire social fabric of this world. Even if they could come up with something, there’s nothing to guarantee anyone beyond their party goes along with it. Besides, words alone will never ever sway Redcloak. We learned this from the last encounter and already pretty much knew this from every encounter Redcloak has had. He trusts almost no one. He barely even tolerates anyone. It’s going to take action. Something so jarring it wakes him from the sunk cost fallacy he’s been stuck in for decades and concrete enough that will allow Redcloak to…well, not trust The Order, but to at least open himself up to giving their way a try. Long enough to at least defeat The Snarl. But, for what it’s worth, if you did want to upend society, all you have to do is devise a way for adventurers to level that doesn’t involve killings through random encounters. I’m not sure what that would be. 1. Role playing points? 2. Larger and larger fetch quests? 3. Picking flowers and mining rocks on Wandering Isle (wait…wrong game…) 4. Maybe the world inside the world has a completely different set of levelling up rules that don’t involve the killing of innocent “bad” guys. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/957 "2021-05-17T15:14:23Z")
> [@CardboardBoxx](#): > > Blerk, what a mealy mouthed wokefest of a strip. Yeah - why can’t they just murder everyone who doesn’t look like them? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/958 "2021-05-17T15:19:12Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > But, for what it’s worth, if you did want to upend society, all you have to do is devise a way for adventurers to level that doesn’t involve killings through random encounters. You don’t need to do that. You just need to find enough ways to level up that don’t involved killing _people_. I don’t think there are moral issue with killing mastodons or most of the undead. Nor with protecting villages from earthquakes, or resolving political troubles (don’t most D&D games give you points for successful “encounters” that don’t involve killing anyone) nor, for that matter, are there necessarily moral issues with equals fighting, even to the death. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/959 "2021-05-17T15:20:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Loving it. > > The woker the better. I don’t think I can sign on to “the woker the better”, but I am loving that the strip feels relevant to the real world, and that the characters have real moral issues to work through. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/960 "2021-05-17T15:21:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Nor with protecting villages from earthquakes, or resolving political troubles (don’t most D&D games give you points for successful “encounters” that don’t involve killing anyone) nor, for that matter, are there necessarily moral issues with equals fighting, even to the death. We know that you can get role-playing XP in the OOTS-verse ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/961 "2021-05-17T15:29:30Z")
Is there a strip showing that? I mean, I’m not surprised, I think you can get role playing XP in most well-run D&D games. And even in the crappy game I ran for my kids, I gave them XP for negotiating with the golden dragon. (not role-playing, just another non-killing form of XP.) I would have had to kill them all if they had tried to kill it. But negotiating with a dragon is an experience… one worth XP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=49)