# Order of the Stick book 7 discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438 "2020-02-03T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/982 "2021-05-19T18:26:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, Xykon is an epic level sorcerer. Sorcerers’ primary stat for deriving their spell casting abilities is charisma, which is also the stat you use to tell if someone is bullshitting you or not Charisma is used to bullshit (Bluff), Wisdom is used to Sense Motive, in 3.5 at least. Eta: you made your Reflex save to edit the post before I corrected you LOL ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/983 "2021-05-19T21:03:12Z")
On the other hand, I’ve long suspected that Stickworld has a “genre savvy” skill, which is Cha-based. Elan and Tarquin both have high cha and have maxed out their ranks, so they’re both very good at it. Xykon hasn’t bothered with any ranks, or only one if it’s trained-only, but his monstrously-high Cha means that he’s still pretty decent at it. Haley has a decent Cha, and since she’s been dating Elan, has been dropping a few ranks in it, so she’s OK at it, too. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/984 "2021-05-19T21:19:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I assume he DID put it on a new chain. The fake one certainly has a new chain on it. > [@](#): > > Honestly, I find it odd that Xykon didn’t notice that the phylactery was fake. Also, I forget what Redcloak actually did with that phylactery. All those protection spells they put on the real one probably keeps it from even getting minor srcratches that ordinary objects routinely acquire during normal use. That would make it difficult to tell the difference between the real phylactery and the fake one. As for the real one, the last we saw of it, Redcloak put it in his Bag of Holding. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/985 "2021-05-19T21:37:58Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > All those protection spells they put on the real one probably keeps it from even getting minor srcratches that ordinary objects routinely acquire during normal use. That would make it difficult to tell the difference between the real phylactery and the fake one. Redcloak had a master craftsman copy, literally, “every scratch” on the amulet. Assuming he cast the same spells on it, there would be no way for Xykon to know it’s a fake. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/986 "2021-05-19T21:50:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Redcloak had a master craftsman copy, literally, “every scratch” on the amulet. That doesn’t make sense, since the craftsman didn’t have the original to compare it with. Yes, I know that’s what RC said, but it still doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/987 "2021-05-19T21:50:26Z")
I guess i would have thought that a thing that contains… something like your soul… would feel special to you, in a way that an exact physical replica wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/988 "2021-05-19T22:00:29Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > That doesn’t make sense, since the craftsman didn’t have the original to compare it with. Yes, I know that’s what RC said, but it still doesn’t make sense. I assume RC worked on it with him, describing every scratch and correcting any mistakes. Bear in mind that RC is more familiar with the phylactery than Xykon is - after all, while it may contain Xykon’s soul, RC was the one who actually wore it all the time. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I guess i would have thought that a thing that contains… something like your soul… would feel special to you, in a way that an exact physical replica wouldn’t. Apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/989 "2021-05-19T22:11:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I assume RC worked on it with him, describing every scratch and correcting any mistakes. Bear in mind that RC is more familiar with the phylactery than Xykon is - after all, while it may contain Xykon’s soul, RC was the one who actually wore it all the time. The problem is that memory of things like scratches is not going to be very good. Even if it’s something you look at all the time,[\*] which this was not. He was wearing it around his neck, not looking at it. [\*] As an exercise, put away your smartphone and then describe all the scratches on its screen. See how accurate you are with that. If you don’t see any, hold it at an oblique angle to a light source so you can see the reflection of that light. That should show scratches you don’t normally notice. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/990 "2021-05-19T22:23:46Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The problem is that memory of things like scratches is not going to be very good. RC’s memory doesn’t have to be very good - it just has to be better than Xykon’s. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/991 "2021-05-19T22:33:21Z")
Redcloak says “Every detail, every scratch, exactly as I remembered them” so I’m going with describing it from memory and having a stronger awareness of what his Holy symbol looked like than the average person is aware of their phone. I believe it was his old Holy symbol doing double duty as Xykon’s phylactery, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/992 "2021-05-19T22:34:21Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > having a stronger awareness of what his Holy symbol looked like than the average person is aware of their phone. He probably stares at it while praying or something ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/993 "2021-05-19T22:38:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > He probably stares at it while praying or something Not to mention that he probably knows it really well by touch. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/994 "2021-05-20T00:52:58Z")
Plus, it may not have been a spontaneous plan. Redcloak may have considered replacing the real phylactery with a fake as a contingency plan back when he still had the real one in his possession and therefore put some effort into preparing for that possibility. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/995 "2021-05-20T13:44:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Redcloak may have considered replacing the real phylactery with a fake as a contingency plan back when he still had the real one in his possession and therefore put some effort into preparing for that possibility. This is what I assumed. He’d specifically taken the time to memorize it in detail in order to be able to pull this off whenever he could find a craftsman he could trust (both in skill and in secrecy). Also, with all the protection on it, the scratches probably didn’t change over time–they were just the ones it got before the protections were on it. And he clearly didn’t bother with the chain, since he just said he “replaced” it. It also wouldn’t surprise me if there was some way to magically boost memory, either. Any spells y’all can think of? I like the idea that it’s hard to lie to Xykon due to his wisdom/charisma score. No magical restriction needs to be there (since Sense Motive would detect deception, even you were telling the truth, I believe). But it’s still wise to not risk him getting suspicious enough to use such spells. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/996 "2021-05-20T13:52:59Z")
Technically, RC doesn’t have to have a great memory of the phylactery. If the craftsman made a good enough mold of it, then all the surface damage would be copied, too. That would allow the craftsman to “age” the new one accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/997 "2021-05-20T14:07:25Z")
At the time that Redcloak had the Fakelactery made, he didn’t have access to the real Phylactery, as it was lost thanks to V and Blackwing. So no mold. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/998 "2021-05-20T14:10:33Z")
Where does it say that he started the fake fabrication process after the original was lost? I suspect that he had begun it long before that confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/999 "2021-05-20T14:16:58Z")
That’s certainly possible, but there’s no textual evidence for that claim, and Redcloak does describe the scratches of the Fakelactery as “exactly as he remembers it” ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1000 "2021-05-20T14:20:31Z")
But my point still stands that one does not have to rely on memory alone to reproduce the original. There are actual techniques to carry over fine details accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecc23a/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada_Jr)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1001 "2021-05-20T14:26:21Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Redcloak says “Every detail, every scratch, exactly as I remembered them” so I’m going with describing it from memory and having a stronger awareness of what his Holy symbol looked like than the average person is aware of their phone. Redcloak says this in a panel where he has _both_ the real and fake phylacteries in his hands, comparing them. I think this is more praising the (dead) craftsman than commenting on his own memory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=51)