# Order of the Stick book 7 discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438 "2020-02-03T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1042 "2021-05-28T14:47:27Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > When they fought Vampire Durkon, they didn’t discuss the plans for us to read and things went great… until they didn’t. It doesn’t work both ways. You can’t guarantee things will work correctly by not discussing them. Just jinx them by discussing them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1043 "2021-05-28T15:05:06Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > They discussed their plan out loud. Elan should have told them that’s a surefire way to make sure nothing will go according to that plan. Compare to the last time they set up an ambush (of the Linear Guild in the pyramid) and they didn’t discuss them, or at least not in the hearing of the audience. Things went swimmingly. I think that could only have worked once. Elan understands that they’re in a story, and that things are going to unfold in ways that make the best possible story. He knows, for example, that in stories where the audience knows the plan, the plan fails, because it’s not as surprising or entertaining if everything goes exactly the way the audience was told it would go. But he also knows that stories where the protagonists do the same thing over and over are boring - if they make a habit of only discussing their plans by going “psst psst psst” at each other, that’s going to stop working really quick, because the audience has already seen that trick, and will be expecting something new to happen to mix up the formula. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1044 "2021-06-14T15:05:55Z")
**[1236 No Strings](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1236.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1045 "2021-06-14T15:08:29Z")
Invisible Serini? Could she dominate Elan without using a potion? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1046 "2021-06-14T15:12:10Z")
Winning comment from Belkar. More spoilery… > **Summary** > > I’d assume Serini could have whatever magic items Burlew wants her to have. Plus she’s a rogue and rogue’s can use wands (just ask Haley!). Improved Invisibility allows one to cast/attack without breaking it (or potentially just doing it while hidden, I guess ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1047 "2021-06-14T16:07:10Z")
How much (if anything) should we read into the fact that halfway through the strip, we don’t se Vaarsuvius any more? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1048 "2021-06-14T16:08:29Z")
I think little. V is flying and would have interfered with the copious dialogue balloons. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1049 "2021-06-14T16:20:26Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I’d assume Serini could have whatever magic items Burlew wants her to have. Plus she’s a rogue and rogue’s can use wands (just ask Haley!). Improved Invisibility allows one to cast/attack without breaking it (or potentially just doing it while hidden, I guess Which would explain how she was able to remain invisible while firing poison darts at O-Chul and Lien. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1050 "2021-06-15T00:35:55Z")
You’re all so quick to assume this is Serini at work. Won’t anyone acknowledge that Burlew has been foreshadowing Lutey going off on a solo adventure? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1051 "2021-06-15T07:50:45Z")
If Lutey wanted to go solo, why would it then mind-control Elan to follow it, clever clogs? Naah, it’s forming a rival breakaway party with Elan. 🙂 The Fraternity of the Fret… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1052 "2021-06-15T12:33:33Z")
The effect Elan is under is probably a Suggestion spell, given that it was phrased to seem reasonable (to Elan, at least). That’s a low-level spell, easy to get in wand form. The downside is a low save DC, which means you’d only expect to get away with it against a weak-willed target. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1053 "2021-06-18T20:02:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The effect Elan is under is probably a Suggestion spell, given that it was phrased to seem reasonable (to Elan, at least). That’s a low-level spell, easy to get in wand form. The downside is a low save DC, which means you’d only expect to get away with it against a weak-willed tar Hmm, in the past when a Suggestion is cast, the target’s eyes [glowed yellow](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html), with no spiral effect. And when Charm Person was cast, the target’s eyes [had a yellow spiral](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html). When a person was [Dominated by V](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), pink spiral. Dominated by a vampire, [red spiral.](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0879.html) I don’t think we’ve seen orange spiral eye, though the color may be tied to the caster’s magic color (e.g. pink for V). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1054 "2021-06-18T20:07:34Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I don’t think we’ve seen orange spiral eye, though the color may be tied to the caster’s magic color (e.g. pink for V). The lute also glows orange before flying off (_Animate Object_?) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1055 "2021-06-18T23:57:32Z")
We’ve seen [swirly eyes from a Suggestion](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0183.html) before. Explicitly called out on-panel, even. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1056 "2021-06-24T13:39:13Z")
**[1237 That’s Bait - Giant in the Playground Games (giantitp.com)](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1237.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1057 "2021-06-24T13:50:39Z")
So, they all went to look for Elan together because it was too risky for only Haley to go, and now only Haley is going because it’s too risky for them to all go together? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1058 "2021-06-24T13:53:31Z")
Yeah, i wondered about that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1059 "2021-06-24T14:57:29Z")
I’m trying to figure out the clues here. Elan is obviously the bait in the literal sense. But I’m assuming the secondary meaning of the strip title is Burlew is baiting us. And the dialogue in the last panel seems to be suggesting that an enemy they’re not expected is going to be a problem. This presumably is a reference to Serini. But while the group is unaware of Serini’s presence, we have seen her in recent strips. So is Burlew suggesting there’s a different unknown enemy in the vicinity? Burlew’s “bait” could be making us think Serini set up this ambush and then revealing it’s really somebody else like Sabine or Tarquin or Hel. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1060 "2021-06-24T15:45:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, they all went to look for Elan together because it was too risky for only Haley to go, and now only Haley is going because it’s too risky for them to all go together? > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, i wondered about that, too. It seemed reasonable to me. It’s too dangerous for one person to go off on their own to blindly delve deep into the unknown depths of the dungeon while everyone else stays at the entrance. On the other hand, once they’re deeper in the dungeon and they see a clear trap, it’s too dangerous for everyone to blunder into it together, so they send the Rogue with all the ranks in Search and Notice and Stealth and the Trapfinding class feature to investigate the obvious trap while everyone else stands ready to provide immediate back-up in the very next room, within range of a single move action. They’re two different situations which require two different approaches. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1061 "2021-06-24T15:45:39Z")
Damn, that’s a cheap shot on Elan by Roy, there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=54)