# Order of the Stick book 7 discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438 "2020-02-03T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1182 "2021-08-18T14:09:42Z")
Because they value their lives? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1183 "2021-08-18T14:17:24Z")
Because he usually stabs them first. Although he’s been Dominated several times (by Nale and Durkula). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1184 "2021-08-18T14:18:38Z")
Looks like Durkon was indeed turned to stone (again). Go go saving throws! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1185 "2021-08-18T14:18:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why is this the first time anyone thought to cast that spell on Belkar? V did cast Crushing Despair on Belkar once, which had a similar effect in terms of suppressing his anger. But eventually the spell wears off, he realizes what you did, and gets even angrier than before. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1186 "2021-08-18T14:19:48Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Looks like Durkon was indeed turned to stone (again). Go go saving throws! Yeah, that Durkon gets stoned way too much. Thankfully, Thor is sympathetic to followers with substance abuse issues. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1187 "2021-08-18T14:24:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Yeah, that Durkon gets stoned way too much He should not feel so all alone. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1188 "2021-08-18T14:42:18Z")
Elan’s _Neutralize Poison_ could come in handy right about now (Minrah should it as well or at least _Delay Poison_ if she’s not high enough Cleric level to cure it) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1189 "2021-08-18T16:04:41Z")
23 days between updates! I hope that’s because he was getting a lot of stuff prepped, not because he’s had some personal trauma to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1190 "2021-08-18T16:53:55Z")
“V and the boys”? Is that some kind of hint? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1191 "2021-08-18T17:03:08Z")
I think it’s quite cleverly ambiguous. Is she saying “V and the [other] boys”, or “V [, who is not a boy, on the one hand] and the boys [, which is category that does not include V, on the other hand]”? Either parsing makes sense in English. She’s clearly singling out V, but that’s probably just because 1. they’ve been poisoned, and 2. they have the magic to deal with the effects the others are suffering, so getting V back on their feet first is the best tactical move. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1192 "2021-08-18T19:59:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > Why is this the first time anyone thought to cast that spell on Belkar? > > V did cast Crushing Despair on Belkar once, which had a similar effect in terms of suppressing his anger. But eventually the spell wears off, he realizes what you did, and gets even angrier than before. V also once cast Owl’s Wisdom on him so he could cast from a scroll of healing (or some such). It very nearly turned him into a Zen holy man halfling. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1193 "2021-08-18T20:27:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > V also once cast Owl’s Wisdom on him so he could cast from a scroll of healing (or some such). It very nearly turned him into a Zen holy man halfling. [First Aid](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1194 "2021-08-18T20:39:05Z")
I’m liking this notion of chain-recovery. V, in turn, will be able (if e prepared the right spell) to stone-to-flesh Durkon, and Durkon can do any other up that needs fixing. Actually, Elan can (eventually) unstone Durkon, too, except his method (Song of Freedom) would take ten minutes. Hopefully, this battle ends long before then with the party convincing Serini and Sunny to help instead of fighting them. Oh, yeah, and “cleric at them vigorously” is a great turn of phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1195 "2021-08-18T23:07:18Z")
Bloodfeast is the hero! ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1196 "2021-08-19T16:18:48Z")
So why did Protection from Evil decharm Elan? Is Serini Evil? Is being charmed Evil? ---
**Author:** ![CardboardBoxx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardboardboxx/32/7079_2.png) [@CardboardBoxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CardboardBoxx)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1197 "2021-08-19T16:22:26Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So why did Protection from Evil decharm Elan? Is Serini Evil? Is being charmed Evil?? From the d20 srd Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a [magic jar](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm) attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as [dominate person](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm)). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. **This second effect works regardless of alignment.** ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1198 "2021-08-19T16:24:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > So why did Protection from Evil decharm Elan? Is Serini Evil? Is being charmed Evil?. In 3.5 PfE does a lot more than just protecting from evil things: > [@](#): > > First, the subject gains a +2 [deflection bonus](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#deflectionBonus) to AC and a +2 [resistance bonus](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#resistanceBonus) on saves. Both these bonuses apply against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures. > > Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a [magic jar](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm) attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as [dominate person](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm)). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of [alignment](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#alignment). > > Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the [natural weapon](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons) attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. [Spell resistance](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance) can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature. So, it protects from evil by making you around 10% harder for them to hit you and giving you a 10% bonus on passing saves from their spells; it also makes you immune to mind control, regardless of who is doing the mind controlling; and it makes it so that non-Good (so both neutral and evil) summoned creatures cannot touch you. Eta: I SHOULD have cast Protection from Ninjas ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1199 "2021-08-19T23:05:26Z")
But apparently Belkar’s magic clasp didn’t stop Belkar himself from being **Fear** ’d, so why does it have such an effect on Elan? Does **Fear** not count as a mind control spell but **Charm Person** does? /DnD ignoramus ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1200 "2021-08-19T23:15:17Z")
That’s correct. 3rd edition was (mostly) very explicit about what categories different spells did and did not fall into. Protection from Evil protects against Charms and Compulsions, but not Fear Effects or other Mind-Affecting Effects. There are other spells that protect against those, too, but they’re higher level, and almost certainly beyond Minrah’s capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1202 "2021-08-20T01:17:16Z")
Speaking of, the _Calm Emotions_ worked to stop the immediate issue but Belkar can’t take any violent actions while under its effect and the effect is broken if he’s attacked (at which point the Fear returns). But at least it started the ball rolling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=61)