# Order of the Stick book 7 discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-strips\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438 "2020-02-03T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 95
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1884 "2024-01-08T15:22:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Belkar is also just a few feet away from the anti-magic field. He could just toss Bloodfeast into the field. Instant large being fight. AIUI, dragons get more powerful the older they get. This one looks fairly old, so I think it’d be more than a match for Bloodfeast. I wouldn’t be surprised if the dino doesn’t survive the battle. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1885 "2024-01-08T15:25:10Z")
~~Why is Calder threatening Belkar specifically?~~ Wait, never mind, “that halfling” is Serini, not Belkar. And while I’m sure that, from a game standpoint, this would be a good fight, I’m not sure that a big fight against a new antagonist is really what the story needs right now. I’m also unsure about how Calder was able to charm-or-whatever Sunny while still stasised-- They don’t usually have a completely passive mind-whammy ability, and they shouldn’t have been able to communicate while in stasis (they can’t even tell how long they’ve been there). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1886 "2024-01-08T15:29:51Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > AIUI, dragons get more powerful the older they get. This one looks fairly old, so I think it’d be more than a match for Bloodfeast Oh, for sure, a dragon would wreck a dinosaur by game rules. But this dinosaur is part of a party, and I could imagine him biting the dragon by the neck and grappling him while the party brings him down. Or it’s a heroic sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1887 "2024-01-08T15:32:45Z")
Also, would a dragon in stasis actually age, in order to gain that power increase? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1888 "2024-01-08T16:00:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Also, would a dragon in stasis actually age, Good point. Red dragons lent to the Gith by Tiamat don’t age while serving the Gith on the Astral Plane, which means they don’t grow bigger and more powerful. But the few decades since Serini built this place are likely small potatoes compared to the length of dragon age categories? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1889 "2024-01-08T16:02:54Z")
As far as Caldor’s age, I believe it’s at least an Old dragon. It seems to have used Suggestion on Sunny and the Abilities by Age table says they get Suggestion at that age. If I interpret the table correctly, all Red Dragons have immunity to fire and vulnerability to cold. So Haley’s arrows are going to be especially effective. Unfortunately, Durkon used a Mass Resist Energy (acid) already. Does he have another for resistance to fire? I suspect not. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1890 "2024-01-08T16:03:18Z")
In 3.5 terms, assuming this dragon is an Adult it has around 33 strength, and if Bloodfeast the Allosaur uses the same stats as a Tyrannosaur he has 28 strength. This means the dragon would have an advantage in a grapple, but not an insurmountable one. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1891 "2024-01-08T16:03:36Z")
Just looking at it as drawn, I’m guessing it’s Old to Very Old+ That’s not “Dragon vs Dinosaur” fight, that’s a dragon snacking on an unfortunate allosaurus. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1892 "2024-01-08T16:05:39Z")
Well, at least he shouldn’t be much more powerful than he was when Serini managed to get him into the stasis field in the first place (however _that_ was). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1893 "2024-01-08T16:06:01Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > As far as Caldor’s age, I believe it’s at least an Old dragon An Old dragon crosses over to Gargantuan, for Red dragons. He doesn’t seem as big as the Black dragon that Vaarsuvius fought, does he? > [@Jophiel](#): > > That’s not “Dragon vs Dinosaur” fight, that’s a dragon snacking on an unfortunate allosaurus. If it’s an Old or older dragon, yeah, ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1894 "2024-01-08T23:00:28Z")
Who has the highest skill in Diplomacy? O-Chul? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1895 "2024-01-08T23:09:47Z")
Haley, when she’s taken a philtre [potion of Glibness](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html). OK, that’s not actually Diplomacy. It’s better. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1896 "2024-01-09T19:15:15Z")
I don’t know if this is a coincidence or not. I suspect not: > **[Flying Dragon (Calder)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dragon_(Calder))** > > Flying Dragon is a sculpture by Alexander Calder in the Art Institute of Chicago North Stanley McCormick Memorial Court (aka North Garden) north of the Art Institute of Chicago Building in the Loop community area of Chicago, Illinois. It is a painted steel plate work of art created in 1975 measuring 365 (H) x 579 (L) x 335 (W) cm (120 x 228 x 132 in.). It is painted in the signature "Calder Red" (which is also used in the nearby Flamingo) and is intended to represent a dragonfly in fligh Alt... Found by someone on the GitP forum. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1897 "2024-01-09T22:39:37Z")
I was assuming it was derived from “caldera”, a part of a volcano. Which is also fitting, for a red dragon. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1898 "2024-01-10T06:35:08Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > It appears Sunny drew a picture of a Red Dragon in [#1257](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1257.html) Notice the dragon in the drawing is missing their right horn, just like Calder. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1899 "2024-01-10T15:58:59Z")
Belkar should unleash his cute little pet then after the overall battle is joined and it is distracted by Roy or V or Serini herself, preferably from behind. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1900 "2024-01-10T22:57:07Z")
Temporal Stasis, in 3.5: > You place the subject into a state of suspended animation. For the creature, time ceases to flow and its condition becomes fixed. The creature does not grow older. Its body functions virtually cease, and no force or effect can harm it. This state persists until the magic is removed (such as by a successful [dispel magic](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm) spell or a [freedom](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedom.htm) spell). I’m wondering what enabled Calder to be free enough to cast suggestion on Sunny. From the OOts Forum: > Double layer trap, one to stasis him and one to keep him put maybe? Or perhaps the stasis trap doesn’t actually stop them from thinking, and Calder is just a really talented caster with access to still and silent spells? > The walls in the room look damaged. Seems like Calder has been able to rage at their cage for a while now. > I feel like Calder is going to drive a pretty hardline bargaining position. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1901 "2024-01-11T10:01:21Z")
Prediction: Next strip we learn that Roy has taken lessons from [an expert](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html) in how to fight red dragons. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1902 "2024-01-11T14:40:41Z")
Ooh, good find. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438/1903 "2024-01-11T22:59:06Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I’m wondering what enabled Calder to be free enough to cast suggestion on Sunny. From the OOts Forum: Another possibility. Calder put into suspended animation. Upon reflection and many years later, Serini decides to open talks with the venerable red dragon. Partly this is due to her newfound sense of fairness towards monsters. But there’s also the risk that Calder could just decide to form an alliance with Team Evil or whoever stumbles upon him. Talks fail. [Temporal stasis](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/temporalStasis.htm) requires success on a touch attack. Since there are no volunteers for such a task, Calder is instead magically imprisoned, fully conscious but not aware of how long ago he was first put into stasis. Calder is not a happy dragon, though perhaps he wouldn’t be averse to limited conversation between fiery exclamations. Sounds like a job for O-Chul. Rich is a wild storyteller. Imagine introducing a likely prominent named character this late in the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=94) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-7-discussion-thread/847438.md?page=96)