# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2001 "2009-07-18T05:44:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Plus Roy doesn’t have that good of a Dex, he missed all the shit Haley and Miko dodged, and took all of the traps, his dex is 12 at most. That just means that Roy is a fighter, not a rogue or a monk. Most characters, if they make a saving throw versus a fireball or the like, still take half damage. But monks and rogues (and high-level rangers, to Belkar’s surprise) have an ability called evasion, which means that if they save versus a blasty spell, they don’t take any damage at all. Plus, even aside from Dex, rogues and monks (and rangers) have better base reflex saving throws than fighters: Even before adding the Dex bonus, a 14th-level rogue will have a save 5 points higher than a fighter. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2002 "2009-07-18T06:10:43Z")
Still, I do agree that if Roy has a dump stat, Dex is it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2003 "2009-07-18T16:07:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, all the “We hate Celia” people should be happy. Why is there hate for Celia? Is it just people are worried she’s going to convince Roy to break up the band and do some solo projects? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2004 "2009-07-18T21:29:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why is there hate for Celia? Is it just people are worried she’s going to convince Roy to break up the band and do some solo projects? I think it’s because she’s the “party pooper”. She’s the one who recognizes what they’re doing in a moral context and is horrified by it. There’s a lot of gamers reading the strip who don’t like someone pointing out how evil in game actions are when they clearly have “good” written down on their character sheet. ---
**Author:** ![Bacon\_Salt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@Bacon\_Salt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bacon_Salt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2005 "2009-07-19T05:43:53Z")
What the hell is with the trying-to-be-topical last four panels? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2006 "2009-07-19T05:55:34Z")
> [@Bacon\_Salt](#): > > What the hell is with the trying-to-be-topical last four panels? Topical? What topic do you think they’re trying to talk about? They’re having a philosophical discussion about a world where death is permanent (ie, the real world) viewed through the parameters of their reality. The joke, such as it is, is that Roy’s conclusion is logical, but we know that it’s way off the mark. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2007 "2009-07-19T06:26:32Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Topical? What topic do you think they’re trying to talk about? > > They’re having a philosophical discussion about a world where death is permanent (ie, the real world) viewed through the parameters of their reality. The joke, such as it is, is that Roy’s conclusion is logical, but we know that it’s way off the mark. Another way to look at it is that his arguments and logic have been mirrored in our world, very often in the case of sci-fi/fantasy. If we lived longer, and/or knew what came after death, maybe we wouldn’t be so crazy or dead set on butchering each other at the drop of a hat. ---
**Author:** ![Bacon\_Salt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@Bacon\_Salt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bacon_Salt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2008 "2009-07-19T07:26:34Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Topical? What topic do you think they’re trying to talk about? I guess trying-to-be-topical wasn’t exactly the right phrase. I didn’t mean that those panels were meant to be about something specific, but that Rich was pointing out how real people behave as if this was a somewhat novel revelation, and he did it in imho just a little heavy-handed and awkwardly placed way. Those four panels just seemed completely divorced from anything, but I guess that it could genuinely just be Roy and Celia getting all post-rez post-coital metaphysical. I guess the fact that I have an irrational pet peeve for the “Oh, how wacky would it be if (ordinary thing that exists in the real world but not in the work of fiction in question) were real!” trope doesn’t help matters. On preview: I just realized how much Roy and Celia are mirroring the relationship between Durkon and what’s-her-face back in the double digits. I mean, the breakup is pretty inevitable, but still :(. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2009 "2009-07-19T07:36:54Z")
> [@Bacon\_Salt](#): > > On preview: I just realized how much Roy and Celia are mirroring the relationship between Durkon and what’s-her-face back in the double digits. I mean, the breakup is pretty inevitable, but still :(. I hope it’s a contrasting, not a mirroring. I’m evidently one of the few that likes Celia and her relationship with Roy. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2010 "2009-07-19T12:55:13Z")
I don’t think they are headed for a breakup. All the stuff about how death will be permanent for Celia seems like foreshadowing. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2011 "2009-07-19T13:58:34Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I think it’s because she’s the “party pooper”. She’s the one who recognizes what they’re doing in a moral context and is horrified by it. There’s a lot of gamers reading the strip who don’t like someone pointing out how evil in game actions are when they clearly have “good” written down on their character sheet. I don’t like her because she has a clearly modern moral context concerning the weight of law, the rights and responsibilities of private individuals to dispense violence, and so forth, and isn’t in a modern or modern-ish world. I’d really like to have her have a conversation with someone she isn’t in a relationship with or severely pissed off, concerning her thoughts on how the world should work, how the world actually does work, and what the adventurers are actually fighting for. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2012 "2009-07-19T15:26:35Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I don’t think they are headed for a breakup. All the stuff about how death will be permanent for Celia seems like foreshadowing. They’re not breaking up, and she’s not dying. She’s simply staying behind. He’s the soldier going off to war, and she’s the girl waiting for him come home when it’s won. Celia will be back at the end of the tale, if Roy lives (although I’m not ruling out her returning for hostage duty). > [@robertliguori](#): > > I don’t like her because she has a clearly modern moral context concerning the weight of law, the rights and responsibilities of private individuals to dispense violence, and so forth, and isn’t in a modern or modern-ish world. Except that the PCs are very modern characters (Roy has an MBA!), and in \*their \*context, she fits in just fine. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2013 "2009-07-19T17:41:53Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > I don’t like her because she has a clearly modern moral context concerning the weight of law, the rights and responsibilities of private individuals to dispense violence, and so forth, and isn’t in a modern or modern-ish world. But she is in a world where copyright and cease-and-desist orders issued by besuited lawyers work. So it’s not an _entirely_ irrational stance she’s taken. Anyway, I don’t think this is a breakup, it’ll just switch to a long-distance relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2014 "2009-07-19T18:06:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I hope it’s a contrasting, not a mirroring. I’m evidently one of the few that likes Celia and her relationship with Roy. I agree. I think Celia was brought in as a dues ex machina to move the story along but now Burlew wants her out of the main plot. So she’ll head back to some outer plane while Roy stays with the Order and the main narrative. This strip was just setting up a reason for her to leave. But I think that the fact that Burlew is providing a reason for her temporary departure means he does intend it as temporary - I think Celia and Roy will get back together at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2015 "2009-07-24T14:37:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Except that the PCs are very modern characters (Roy has an MBA!)… Master of Battle Administration. Not exactly a modern discipline. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2016 "2009-07-24T14:49:10Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Master of Battle Administration. Not exactly a modern discipline. Well, it’s not \*exactly \*a modern world. Just pretty close to one in many respects. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2017 "2009-07-24T15:52:44Z")
_Still_ no new strip? When I saw this thread brought up again, I was sure that 670 had finally come. You tease. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2018 "2009-07-24T16:22:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But she is in a world where copyright and cease-and-desist orders issued by besuited lawyers work. So it’s not an _entirely_ irrational stance she’s taken. > > Anyway, I don’t think this is a breakup, it’ll just switch to a long-distance relationship. Didn’t Miko’s horse try that on Belkar? Didn’t we see a pretty clear indication of how well that works (or doesn’t work) on anyone who doesn’t give a toss for the law, or the Law? And like I said, I think that the conflict Celia generates between our expectations of how a heavily anachronized world should work and how it actually does is a good thing. I think that it’s an interesting and sobering reflection both on what the rule of law means in our world, and what it would mean if you actually did have liches and dragons competing for mercenary adventurers as the highest active mortal powers in the world. I just also think that it’s a bit annoying to bring up Celia’s point of view, and not have anyone ask her to justify it. ---
**Author:** ![Jsb5391](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jsb5391](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jsb5391)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2019 "2009-07-24T16:48:58Z")
In fact, the [new strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) _is_ up! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2020 "2009-07-24T16:51:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Didn’t Miko’s horse try that on Belkar? Didn’t we see a pretty clear indication of how well that works (or doesn’t work) on anyone who doesn’t give a toss for the law, or the Law? Ordinarily, such an order could be enforced by the police (and we’ve seen that Stickworld has modern-style police, too), but for Belkar specifically, the problem is that there are no police in the world powerful enough to enforce anything against him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=100) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=102)