# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 104
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2061 "2009-08-08T17:05:52Z")
I’m going to guess that it’s the original world, a world the Snarl changed into a realistic fantasy world with no typical DnD cliches. A world where there are no “always chaotic evil” creatures for adventuring parties to kill for xp. It’ll create a lot of situations for humor, as the OotS venture into a world where the cliches no longer work. The snarl did grow out of the gods bickering, but only with a hatred toward the gods and their meddling. The gods lied about the Snarl trying to destroy the world, as it was only trying to kill the gods, and they were only trying to save their own butts instead of saving the world. It has left the original world intact as it actually likes it. Kraagor wasn’t killed when the rift was closed, but was taken into the Snarl’s world, and is now it’s willing servant. Unfortunately the Snarl still hates the gods as much as it used to, so a peaceful confrontation may not be possible. However it doesn’t actually hate life itself, which is why it hasn’t attacked through the open rift. It’s waiting for the gods to expose themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2062 "2009-08-08T17:16:27Z")
Man, what a story teller. The ultimate compliment: “What happens next?” At least he put up the date so I don’t have to keep going to the site in frustration. (Nobody else would, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2063 "2009-08-08T17:25:30Z")
I’m wondering if Blackwing’s revelation is a set-up for an endgame where the OotS are forced to allow Team Evil (or whoever) to get at the gate… only to discover that the Snarl isn’t what they thought it was, and their machinations end up being to no avail. (also: _very_ glad he put in a date when he’d be back; the random waits and delays were becoming quite annoying.) > [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Although the continents aren’t exactly right, I’ll say it’s our/the DM’s world. Given the size of those ice caps, it looks to be in the midst of an Ice Age. > [@robertliguori](#): > > Roy is apparently not getting a lot of use out of his MBA. Flanking tactics are of only moderate effectiveness against enemies with Overland Flight. It never came up in our games, and we all got rid of our 3.x books, and I’m too lazy to go look it up in the SRD, but… what’s the distinction between Overland Flight and regular ol’ Flight? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2064 "2009-08-08T17:40:42Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > It never came up in our games, and we all got rid of our 3.x books, and I’m too lazy to go look it up in the SRD, but… what’s the distinction between Overland Flight and regular ol’ Flight? Fly is a level 3 spell that lasts 1-20 minutes that lets the target fly 60 feet per round with good maneuverability. Overland Flight is a level 5 spell that lasts 1-20 _hours_ that lets the target fly 40 feet per round with average maneuverability. Basically, Overland Flight is for getting from point A to point B on the World Map (or just in case you need to not fall some time today), while Fly is for dealing with specific problems on a case-by-case basis. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2065 "2009-08-08T17:48:37Z")
Ah, thanks. As I said, it never came up in our games, so I was wondering if it was a distinct ability, or a different spell, or what. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2066 "2009-08-08T17:59:20Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > I’m going to guess that it’s the original world, a world the Snarl changed into a realistic fantasy world with no typical DnD cliches. A world where there are no “always chaotic evil” creatures for adventuring parties to kill for xp. It’ll create a lot of situations for humor, as the OotS venture into a world where the cliches no longer work. The snarl did grow out of the gods bickering, but only with a hatred toward the gods and their meddling. This would tie back in really well with [this strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html). It would be Burlew-esque (Burlesque?) to present a strip that looks like a humorous POV shift of D&D characters contemplating a fictional world that happens to be our world, then have it turn out to be real foreshadowing. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2067 "2009-08-08T19:26:50Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Fly is a level 3 spell that lasts 1-20 minutes that lets the target fly 60 feet per round with good maneuverability. > > Overland Flight is a level 5 spell that lasts 1-20 _hours_ that lets the target fly 40 feet per round with average maneuverability. > > Basically, Overland Flight is for getting from point A to point B on the World Map (or just in case you need to not fall some time today), while Fly is for dealing with specific problems on a case-by-case basis. This, with the minor ademennum that as we saw in the Xykon vs. Roy duel, Overland Flight is also pretty basically impervious protection from melee attacks from non-flying attackers. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2068 "2009-08-08T19:57:39Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > I’m going to guess that it’s the original world, a world the Snarl changed into a realistic fantasy world with no typical DnD cliches. A world where there are no “always chaotic evil” creatures for adventuring parties to kill for xp. It’ll create a lot of situations for humor, as the OotS venture into a world where the cliches no longer work. The snarl did grow out of the gods bickering, but only with a hatred toward the gods and their meddling. > > The gods lied about the Snarl trying to destroy the world, as it was only trying to kill the gods, and they were only trying to save their own butts instead of saving the world. It has left the original world intact as it actually likes it. Kraagor wasn’t killed when the rift was closed, but was taken into the Snarl’s world, and is now it’s willing servant. Unfortunately the Snarl still hates the gods as much as it used to, so a peaceful confrontation may not be possible. However it doesn’t actually hate life itself, which is why it hasn’t attacked through the open rift. It’s waiting for the gods to expose themselves. Whoa whoa whoa… What if the SNARL was the one who originally created the world and the gods are the usurpers? The snarl could be the original chaos and it was bringing order when some of its creations supplanted it? That would be one hell of a thing, if the snarl was the good guy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2069 "2009-08-08T21:20:46Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Although the continents aren’t exactly right, I’ll say it’s our/the DM’s world. That was my original thought, tho the continents don’t seem to match ours (assuming it is Earth in the middle of an ice age c. 10-20,000 years ago). The old world has to be destroyed to make way for the new one… ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2070 "2009-08-08T21:29:31Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > That was my original thought, tho the continents don’t seem to match ours (assuming it is Earth in the middle of an ice age c. 10-20,000 years ago). The old world has to be destroyed to make way for the new one… That’s going to be rough on the fourth wall.. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2071 "2009-08-08T22:30:26Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > That’s going to be rough on the fourth wall.. Yeah, I would be pretty disappointed if he resorts to meta-real-world stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2072 "2009-08-09T01:26:34Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > So is it recursion, the original world, some kind of un-entropic effect, the snarl’s own creation that it’s protecting, a giant firebreathing space hamster egg, or something strange? The giant firebreathing space hamster egg. Totally. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2073 "2009-08-09T11:56:28Z")
Man, **Order of the Stick** is just fantastic storytelling. I never got into D&D when I was younger (or ever) because I have no friends who were into it to play with, but the Order of the Stick just totally pulled me in. I’m glad to see there are plenty of surprises and events to come, but man, I wish we didn’t have to wait years to find out what they are. Oh well. It’s something to look forward to. Now, if somebody could figure out what the heck those two Mr. Belvedere panels in **Start of Darkness** were all about, I’d be happy… ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2074 "2009-08-09T11:58:36Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Now, if somebody could figure out what the heck those two Mr. Belvedere panels in **Start of Darkness** were all about, I’d be happy… Sometimes a pop culture reference is just a pop culture reference. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2075 "2009-08-09T12:09:41Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > I’m glad to see there are plenty of surprises and events to come, but man, I wish we didn’t have to wait years to find out what they are. Oh well. It’s something to look forward to. Eh. He’ll still finish before George R.R. Martin. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2076 "2009-08-09T12:55:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Eh. He’ll still finish before George R.R. Martin. Right now I’d bet on the heat death of the universe beating George R. R. Martin. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2077 "2009-08-09T12:57:36Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > Sometimes a pop culture reference is just a pop culture reference. Yeah, but every other pop culture reference in the strip’s history – at least as far as I can recall – has made sense in the larger context of the story. “Ghost Dad” and the Cosby movie, on the same page as that Mr. Belvedere reference? That made sense, since we know Roy’s dad best as a ghost. The inclusion of Keith Baker at the Helldeathdoomfire Volcano made sense if you knew about the [del]friendly rivalry[/del] arch-nemesisness between Rich Burlew and Keith Baker. [Thog wanting to play Celine Dion for Elan while Nale vetoes him](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html), or Elan singing Spice Girls songs to try to force the guards to let him out of prison? Those make sense in the context of “singers that are considered to be so bad that listening to them is pure torture.” Heck, even [Fruit Pie the Sorcerer](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0091.html) made sense, if you knew it was parodying the old Hostess ads in comic books from decades ago. But Mr. Belvedere just seems to be randomly dropped in there without any of the hidden meaning that usually characterizes an Order of the Stick gag. Plenty of people still hope that we’re just missing something here, and that there’s some vital clue that will make it all make sense. Or that we’ll eventually be told that, yes, it was just purely random, alas. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2078 "2009-08-09T13:06:36Z")
Tried to edit but was too late: [Elan singing Spice Girls songs to try to force the guards to let him out of prison](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html). You know, just in case anybody wanted to see that one for fun. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2079 "2009-08-09T16:32:20Z")
Ya know, I asked the same question after reading SoT. And I got the same “pop culture is pop culture” answer. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/2080 "2009-08-09T16:44:42Z")
Oh, it makes sense within context. It’s a ‘drunk awakening’. “Why is the car parked crooked? On the porch? Of the house across the street?” It’s a completely inexplicable event that clearly made sense while it happened, but thanks to the memory wipe, we’ll never know why, in fact, if it wasn’t for that horse, the girl wouldn’t have spent that year in college. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=103) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=105)