# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/41 "2009-02-06T21:47:32Z")
Vaar and his/her spouse are elves. Even outside of the world of OotS, it’s a running gag among many game groups that you can’t tell elven males from elven females - both being naturally hairless, slender and delicate, and prone to long, pretty hair. The long hair being the only possible way of determining sex, given that whichever one of the two is female is flat as a board… ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/42 "2009-02-07T04:36:48Z")
> [@Garula](#): > > Also, going back to read the comics when the party killed the little dragon, it’s not entirely clear who started the hostilities. They find the dragon at the end of one strip, and next strip they’re already in the middle of combat. It’s not like they were just walking in the forest when they were attacked - they were already in the cave in which the dragon lived. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/43 "2009-02-07T04:41:35Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > It’s not like they were just walking in the forest when they were attacked - they were already in the cave in which the dragon lived. But they didn’t realize that anyone really owned the starmetal or who was there. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/44 "2009-02-07T05:31:16Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > But they didn’t realize that anyone really owned the starmetal or who was there. The dragon didn’t know that, though. And when your father was killed by adventurers, it’s probably better to be safe than sorry when the next lot of adventurers show up where you live. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/45 "2009-02-07T07:45:52Z")
I’m somewhat amused/interested by the high level of emotion on the part of some on the OOTS forums to the idea that V’s kids could be in mortal peril. What do you think is causing that kind of resistance? Is it only because of the medium and art style? The genre (fantasy/COMEDY)? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/46 "2009-02-07T08:22:50Z")
What do you mean “resistance”? Isn’t it the goal of all drama to get the readers emotionally involved? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/47 "2009-02-07T08:25:25Z")
I guess I mean the vibe I get from many that it’d be “wrong” for the author to harm children in his story, the vibe that “this isn’t THAT kind of story.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/48 "2009-02-07T08:46:43Z")
Ever since the Fall of Azure City, I think it’s been pretty obvious that it \*is \*that kind of story. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/49 "2009-02-07T09:22:26Z")
You have to learn that killing anybody - good guy, bad guy, male, female, adult or child - in comics is just a way to make things OMGGRIMDARK, which makes it automatically bad. Killing a good guy’s children of indeterminate gender could only be worse if you killed a good guy’s distinctly female child - which would, of course, mean that even Satan would be disgusted by you. Me, frustrated with my fellow fans? Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/50 "2009-02-07T12:50:21Z")
This is what I think is going to happen: Vaarsuvius will follow the dragon to their house and find it in ruin along with some unidentifiable remains. She’ll swear vengeance on the dragon, and accept the imp’s proposal for help. After V departs with her new found ally, we’ll see V’s mate and the children come out of hiding. The remains were only an illusion made by V’s mate, but V won’t know this until her journey to the dark side is complete. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/51 "2009-02-07T15:44:57Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Yeah, but that’s not much of an argument. If I live out in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, and some people wander by looking for something I won, I’m not really justified in grabbing my axe and trying to kill them. (I call this the “Jason Vorhees is not a hero” rule). Varsuuvius can be a little emotionally cool, but he was simply removing the threat in the most efficient manner once it had made its hostile nature apparent. It’s not nice, but then, alignments forces are not about “nice.” I just wanted to link this conversation a closely related one: [Castle Theory of Guns and Protection](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=504992) kthxby: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/52 "2009-02-07T15:55:55Z")
I’m curious about why the dragon felt she had to wait until Vaarsuvius was isolated. It made sense originally when it looked like her plan was to kill V. But the dragon only wanted to tell V that she was going to kill his/her family. Surely she could have gotten that message through without endangering herself despite others being around. ---
**Author:** ![Garula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Garula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garula)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/53 "2009-02-07T16:20:26Z")
I think it was to drive home the point the V failed to protect his/her family as well as savoring his/her agony. V is basically driven by the desire for arcane power and the belief that s/he is superior to everyone else. The dragon knew that and decided that showing just how inadequate s/he is would be the greatest torture. Besides, might as well get into a little skirmish to drain as many of his/her resources as possible, just in case. Even if s/he manages to get there in time, s/he will be out of disintegrates. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/54 "2009-02-07T19:31:34Z")
Black dragons are evil. They’re ok to kill, right? Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/55 "2009-02-07T20:25:47Z")
Correct. They’re [color-coded for your convenience!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0207.html) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/56 "2009-02-07T21:26:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m curious about why the dragon felt she had to wait until Vaarsuvius was isolated. It made sense originally when it looked like her plan was to kill V. But the dragon only wanted to tell V that she was going to kill his/her family. Surely she could have gotten that message through without endangering herself despite others being around. Biggest reason? Durkon. Clerics can cast some of the spells which could lock down the dragon and let the rest of them mash it to death. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/57 "2009-02-08T05:18:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Biggest reason? Durkon. Clerics can cast some of the spells which could lock down the dragon and let the rest of them mash it to death. That’s only if the dragon were present. If she had no plan to kill V and just wanted to pass on her plan to kill V’s family, she could have sent it via some kind of message spell. She could have even done it after she had V’s family in captivity. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/58 "2009-02-08T05:23:44Z")
> [@Silophant](#): > > Correct. They’re [color-coded for your convenience!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0207.html) I’d kind of forgotten what a bitch Miko was… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/59 "2009-02-11T18:38:47Z")
Quoth **DigitalC** : > [@](#): > > Even so i kinda liked the fact that even an ancient black dragon had to wait for him to waste his high level spells before messing with him. She didn’t have to wait, she chose to wait just to be on the safe side. The dragon is at least the equal of Vaarsuvius in spellcasting power, and probably superior, being the equivalent of a 14th or 15th level sorcerer, while Vaarsuvius is a 14th-level wizard, but also has a heck of a lot more HP, physical attacks, movement, endurance, saving throws, skills, and so on. Further, the dragon has made very intelligent choices to let her various abilities complement each other, such as learning Antimagic Field (a dragon in an antimagic field really is about as much of a Big Deal as she makes it out to be in the comic). Frankly, if the dragon had decided to take on the entire united party plus Hinjo, Lien, and Therkla, she probably still would have won. Waiting until V was alone and depleted was just about being absolutely certain. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/60 "2009-02-11T19:26:58Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Vaar and his/her spouse are elves. Even outside of the world of OotS, it’s a running gag among many game groups that you can’t tell elven males from elven females - both being naturally hairless, slender and delicate, and prone to long, pretty hair. The long hair being the only possible way of determining sex, given that whichever one of the two is female is flat as a board… Who’s to say V and his/her mate can’t be the same sex – they could be “life-long companions” to use the old ephemism. Both elflets are darker than either of the two. Adopted, perhaps? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=4)