# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/581 "2009-04-17T01:09:23Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Jenny’s stats: > > STR 8 > DEX 6 > CON 7 > INT 5 > WIS 3 > CHA 09. Good one. It took me a minute to catch on. Unfortunately it’s going to be in my head all day now. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/582 "2009-04-17T02:03:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, today’s strip, and V’s facial expressions, finally make me think there’s hope for him not-being-evil-in-the-long-run. I’m glad for that. Heel-turns never really do it for me in comics. I’m sure there’ll be complications, but I’m equally sure they will be handled well. Burlew has made the point before that many evil characters don’t think of themselves as evil (characters like Xykon and Nale are exceptions). They usually think of themselves as people who happen to be doing something evil but for a good reason. Redcloak would be a prime example of this. And Vaarsuvious could conceivably end up becoming like this. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/583 "2009-04-17T07:02:33Z")
> [@Wolverine](#): > > Good one. It took me a minute to catch on. Unfortunately it’s going to be in my head all day now. Thanks. I posted to ask for help, but then I got it. Well played. I had been extraordinarily confused as to why she’d be only a 9- Jenny was a 13 or 14, at least. Hint: Think Tommy Tutone. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/584 "2009-04-17T07:13:57Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Jenny’s stats: > > STR 8 > DEX 6 > CON 7 > INT 5 > WIS 3 > CHA 09. Well, I don’t get it. I think that STR 8 means “straight” and CHA 9 means “canine”; DEX 6 maybe means Deck 6 - but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/585 "2009-04-17T09:01:15Z")
[Psst](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHJqtgo8RA). ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/586 "2009-04-17T11:20:40Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Jenny’s stats: > > STR 8 > DEX 6 > CON 7 > INT 5 > WIS 3 > CHA 09. ::golf clap:: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/587 "2009-04-17T12:27:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > [Psst](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHJqtgo8RA). Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/588 "2009-04-17T13:24:56Z")
That idea wouldn’t have worked for Belkar anyway. He’s learned not to read anything he sees on a wall. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/589 "2009-04-17T14:08:44Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Jenny’s stats: > > STR 8 > DEX 6 > CON 7 > INT 5 > WIS 3 > CHA 09. Tsk. Some times, dice roll is not the option to choose, despite what the CharOp boards tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/590 "2009-04-17T14:26:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Burlew has made the point before that many evil characters don’t think of themselves as evil (characters like Xykon and Nale are exceptions). They usually think of themselves as people who happen to be doing something evil but for a good reason. Redcloak would be a prime example of this. And Vaarsuvious could conceivably end up becoming like this. That’s true in any sane narrative universe but V is a player character in an RPG universe. She/he can just look at the spot on the sheet for alignment. I suppose it’ll depend on how much Burlew wants to run with that theme… > [@Lightray](#): > > Tsk. Some times, dice roll is not the option to choose, despite what the CharOp boards tell you. Yeah, with stats like that the only class you can take is Jester. Yeah, I got it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/591 "2009-04-17T15:05:22Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > That’s true in any sane narrative universe but V is a player character in an RPG universe. She/he can just look at the spot on the sheet for alignment. I suppose it’ll depend on how much Burlew wants to run with that theme… S/he doesn’t even need to “cheat” like that, even a level 1 Cleric or Paladin can cast Detect Evil. Hand him 10gp and ask him to cast the spell on you. If he collapses twitching, you know the answer is “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/592 "2009-04-17T20:39:27Z")
But even then, you’d get characters arguing that they’re only technically evil, or that they’re evil but had no choice in the matter, or that what a paladin detects isn’t _really_ evil, but just non-paladinness, or whatever. People (even elvish people) have an amazing capacity for self-delusion. And **Little Nemo**? That was hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/593 "2009-04-17T20:44:20Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > That’s true in any sane narrative universe but V is a player character in an RPG universe. She/he can just look at the spot on the sheet for alignment. I suppose it’ll depend on how much Burlew wants to run with that theme… We know it doesn’t work that way in the Stickverse. Miko, after all, went to her grave (so to speak) believing that she was lawful good. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/594 "2009-04-17T21:14:07Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > INT 5 > WIS 3 That would actually explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/595 "2009-04-17T22:54:07Z")
Hal, that’s exactly what I was thinking. I mean, _Belkar_. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/596 "2009-04-18T00:12:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > We know it doesn’t work that way in the Stickverse. Miko, after all, went to her grave (so to speak) believing that she was lawful good. Two things there: 1. Miko was an NPC. See the “stupid railroad plot” strip; PC’s do not act as agents of the GM’s narrative. 2. Miko lost her paladin powers but that doesn’t mean an alignment shift. A single bad act performed in good faith doesn’t necessarily bump you all the way down the scale. ETA: Does 3.5 still have XP penalties for shifting alignment? That would be hard for a PC to miss as well. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/597 "2009-04-18T00:20:26Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Hal, that’s exactly what I was thinking. I mean, _Belkar_. Well, he is a sexy shoeless god of war. Women love that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/598 "2009-04-18T01:04:15Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > S/he doesn’t even need to “cheat” like that, even a level 1 Cleric or Paladin can cast Detect Evil. Hand him 10gp and ask him to cast the spell on you. If he collapses twitching, you know the answer is “yes”. Well, that is [just](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html) [exactly](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0208.html) [how](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0228.html) Miko firmly established that Belkar was Evil. I’m sure there’s nothing V could do against such a foolproof scheme… if Belkar couldn’t foil Detect Evil, V has no hope of being clever enough. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/599 "2009-04-18T01:47:49Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Well, that is [just](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html) [exactly](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0208.html) [how](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0228.html) Miko firmly established that Belkar was Evil. I’m sure there’s nothing V could do against such a foolproof scheme… if Belkar couldn’t foil Detect Evil, V has no hope of being clever enough. Miko never firmly established that Belkar was Evil. He always blocked her detection. While, that implies that he’s Evil, it is by no means firm. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/600 "2009-04-18T01:55:07Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > Miko never firmly established that Belkar was Evil. He always blocked her detection. While, that implies that he’s Evil, it is by no means firm. > > 😛 Whoosh. Unless I’ve just been whooshed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=31)