# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/601 "2009-04-18T02:03:43Z")
That there was your archetypical whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/602 "2009-04-18T06:50:01Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Well, that is [just](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html) [exactly](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0208.html) [how](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0228.html) Miko firmly established that Belkar was Evil. I’m sure there’s nothing V could do against such a foolproof scheme… if Belkar couldn’t foil Detect Evil, V has no hope of being clever enough. We were talking about whether V could find out if s/he is evil or not. If **V** wants to find out, **V** is not going to sabotage the attempt, is s/he? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/603 "2009-04-18T12:10:36Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > Two things there: > > 1. Miko was an NPC. See the “stupid railroad plot” strip; PC’s do not act as agents of the GM’s narrative. > > 2. Miko lost her paladin powers but that doesn’t mean an alignment shift. A single bad act performed in good faith doesn’t necessarily bump you all the way down the scale. > > ETA: Does 3.5 still have XP penalties for shifting alignment? That would be hard for a PC to miss as well. I don’t know about 1, but as for 2, I think [this strip](http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html)indicates that Miko wasn’t going to end up in the lawful good afterlife. It seems obvious to me that she lost her paladin status as a result of her (unacknowledged) alignment shift. She’d been on the cusp for a while - you can’t be good while being utterly lacking in compassion - and her slaying of Shojo pushed her over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/604 "2009-04-18T12:38:58Z")
I only just now noticed the title : [QUOTE=Belkar] Welcome to the deep end of the alignment pool, pal. [/QUOTE] _It’s Where the Cool Kids Swim_ ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/605 "2009-04-18T14:03:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t know about 1, but as for 2, I think [this strip](http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html)indicates that Miko wasn’t going to end up in the lawful good afterlife. It seems obvious to me that she lost her paladin status as a result of her (unacknowledged) alignment shift. She’d been on the cusp for a while - you can’t be good while being utterly lacking in compassion - and her slaying of Shojo pushed her over the edge. [Fixed link.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/606 "2009-04-18T14:06:37Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/607 "2009-04-18T17:22:21Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > We were talking about whether V could find out if s/he is evil or not. If **V** wants to find out, **V** is not going to sabotage the attempt, is s/he? _That’s_ what you were getting at? So you still missed that an [item](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html) simply carried by Xykon messed up Detect Evil… and are expecting that Detect Evil could sort out V’s alignment while she has _two Evil souls_ bonded with her? Still not going to happen. Even if Rich was prone to giving his characters an easy out for ethical dilemmas. Which he hasn’t been, at all. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/608 "2009-04-18T17:53:56Z")
Nitpick: This is a moral dilemma. An ethical dilemma would be when Roy was confronted by the deva for his chaotic methods. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/609 "2009-04-19T05:00:14Z")
Ooh. Good catch; I’d forgotten the alignment axes were the “moral” and “ethical”. I dub the “grognard”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/610 "2009-04-19T06:30:00Z")
One thing I can say is that if/when Haley does find out about what happened I think she’ll handle it calmly. I mean, she had that :eek: expression during the Darth V line, but she seemed to be acting pretty calmly about it, kind of like “Oh, crap, you’re evil now. _Sigh_ okay, we can fix this.” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/611 "2009-04-19T11:00:36Z")
Oh hey, checking before going to bed and [the next strip is up](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0646.html). That was fast. Given that the title of the thread is becoming increasingly inaccurate should we wave down a mod for a renaming or perhaps go to a new thread… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/612 "2009-04-19T11:06:20Z")
How messed up is it that Belkar is now the Voice of Reason? ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/613 "2009-04-19T11:36:25Z")
Reunited! (And now that song will be resounding through my head all day; thanks, Rich!) Now all they need is to get Roy back amongst the living, and this story arc comes to a close. And now that there is absolutely no reason to keep the Soul Splice going – will V even bother to make an excuse to him/herself why s/he doesn’t dismiss it at once? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/614 "2009-04-19T12:58:14Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > And now that there is absolutely no reason to keep the Soul Splice going… Well, except for that whole “defeat Xykon thing”. Oh, and the “prevent the destruction of the world” thing too. Naaa…V will be hanging on to those other two Pips for a little while yet. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/615 "2009-04-19T15:41:08Z")
I think Suvie would hold onto the splice as long as possible regardless of the Xykon situation, just for the power. See how disappointed he is that _he_ couldn’t make the reunion happen. It wasn’t the reunion that was important to him, it was his ability to make it happen. Reminds me of my nephew when he was in his brat phase. He was moaning one Christmas about not able to think of a gift for his dad. I suggested something inexpensive I knew my brother was yearning for. My nephew then said, “Thanks a lot. Now I’ll never be able to give that gift.” When I asked why not, he said, “Because I didn’t think of it.” I looked at hin cooly and said, “What’s more important, giving your father a nifty gift, or the ego-trip of thinking of the gift?” He didn’t answer. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/616 "2009-04-19T16:21:41Z")
I’m thinking there’s some hot, rogue-on-bard action tonight, baby. That and I’m wondering whether V’s spliced friends will encourage him not to bring Roy back since Roy can report on them. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/617 "2009-04-19T17:46:13Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I looked at hin cooly and said, “What’s more important, giving your father a nifty gift, or the ego-trip of thinking of the gift?” He didn’t answer. I take it your parents never told you “it’s the thought that counts”? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/618 "2009-04-19T18:33:23Z")
Remember, e’s already gotten one of the souls shocked out of em. Frankly, I’m a bit surprised that e hasn’t already lost another from Kazumi telling em where Haley was or Durkon and Elan showing up. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/619 "2009-04-19T18:39:15Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > Oh hey, checking before going to bed and [the next strip is up](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0646.html). That was fast. > > Given that the title of the thread is becoming increasingly inaccurate should we wave down a mod for a renaming or perhaps go to a new thread… The gap between 644 and 645 was almost a week. I think we’re just getting caught up again. ---
**Author:** ![Zetetic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/74df32/32.png) [@Zetetic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zetetic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/620 "2009-04-19T19:26:59Z")
Disclaimer: I know practically nothing about D&D the game, except that which I have picked up from occasional reading of the OOTS strip. With that in mind, I have some questions: Could Vaarsuvius, in his new heightened-power state, kill the demons he has made a bargain with? If he is not powerful enough to do so alone, is there some combination of factors (the whole Order assisting him / going on a quest for a fabled powerful artifact / something else) that would enable him to kill them? If killing them isn’t possible what about banishing/exorcising them, or something along those lines? Anything that would remove them from being in a position to call in the debt when the soul-splice ends. If the above were to be possible, what would the ramifications be if the splice was sundered and the demons didn’t exist to claim a third-part of his soul? Would/could some other entity claim the debt? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=32)