# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/641 "2009-04-20T18:58:34Z")
I’m glad she’s not coming back. Her arc was completed - she was a bitch, she fucked up, she died. End of story. The only route she can take from there (from a storytelling point of view) is redemption, and none of us want to see _that_. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/642 "2009-04-20T19:00:56Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > While those threads were somewhat annoying, I do think that for some reason Rich very much dislikes \*all \*the fanwank and speculation going on in his own forum - to me those 2 strips in particular were kind of spiteful. Commercial authors almost all dislike published (even web-published) fanwank and speculation, because even IF that was the direction that they were pushing the story, the person who did the speculation on the board can come back and say that it was obviously THEIR idea (since it was “published” before the actual comic/novel) and they should get compensation for it. It’s one thing to have private conversations with your buddies about where George Lucas is taking Star Wars and another thing entirely to have those conversations in semi-permanent public form, especially if the speculators are particularly insightful. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/643 "2009-04-20T20:36:28Z")
In fact, Rich requests that any speculations about the future of the comic on his forums be marked as spoilers, so he can specifically avoid those threads. Miko died because it was the proper place in her story for her to die, and she won’t come back because that would not be the right thing for her story. Yes, he planned her as a recurring antagonist, and she already has been that. And Vaarsuvius almost certainly has a higher Intelligence than Roy, but Roy has very good scores in Int, Wis, and Cha. The [del]mind flayer[/del]squid thingy likes the taste of all three in balance, not just empty sweetness like Elan’s high-Cha Diet Coke, bland nourishment like Durkon’s high-Wis bowl of rice, or Vaarsuvius’s high-Int junk food. When he seems smarter than V, it’s because es Charisma is very low, and es Wisdom is even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/644 "2009-04-20T21:18:13Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Nope. _Deities & Demigods_ had a 3e version, which details how to stat up gods, with an eye to them being Epic Level antagonists. Although the Lovecraftian Mythos was not added back in, so they didn’t intend you to be teleporting to Carcosa and beating up _him_. Actually, they released a _Call of Cthulhu_ sourcebook using 3e rules a while back. It had stats for all the heavy hitters in the Lovecraft pantheon. While it was cool seeing what Nyarlathotep’s basic attack value was, dedicating an entire chapter to stating Great Old Ones was a pretty clear sign that the book’s designers didn’t quite get the point of such beings. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/645 "2009-04-20T21:24:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m glad she’s not coming back. Her arc was completed - she was a bitch, she fucked up, she died. End of story. The only route she can take from there (from a storytelling point of view) is redemption, and none of us want to see _that_. Big ditto to this. I greatly respected that her story didn’t end in a tacked-on redemption. Miko’s arc was a classic tragedy, with her trouble coming on her head from her own character flaws. Redemption was simply not a possibility given her rigid mindset and inability to look at herself clearly and humbly. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/646 "2009-04-20T21:53:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m glad she’s not coming back. Her arc was completed - she was a bitch, she fucked up, she died. End of story. The only route she can take from there (from a storytelling point of view) is redemption, and none of us want to see _that_. But redemption is going to be V’s story, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/647 "2009-04-20T22:15:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Actually, they released a _Call of Cthulhu_ sourcebook using 3e rules a while back. It had stats for all the heavy hitters in the Lovecraft pantheon. While it was cool seeing what Nyarlathotep’s basic attack value was, dedicating an entire chapter to stating Great Old Ones was a pretty clear sign that the book’s designers didn’t quite get the point of such beings. I disagree. The old CoC books, IIRC, also had stats for the Old Ones (hilarious stats–Cthulhu’s attack damage was something like “eats 1d6 PCs per round”). And the stats in the 3E book are prefaced with this: > [@Monte Cook](#): > > The deities described in the Cthulhu Mythos chapter are beyond mortal ken in the Call of Cthulhu game. They usually need no such statistics, for they are beyond such things. > > However, in DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, where player characters can cast wish spells and struggle against th emost powerful of dragons, they can make formidable foes, whether as evil gods worshipped by insane clerics, or extraordinarily powerful enemies that high-level characters do battle with (or both). This suggests to me that they understand a use of these stats is a departure from the traditional mythos. The new stats aren’t as funny as the old ones (heh) were, but they’re kinda funny. Azathoth for example has a ranged attack he can it can use 24x daily: ranged touch attack of something like +90, inflicting 42d12 damage, no save. The range of the attack is 20 miles (meaning he can do it from 100 miles by taking a -10 penalty to that touch attack). ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/648 "2009-04-20T22:34:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I disagree. The old CoC books, IIRC, also had stats for the Old Ones (hilarious stats–Cthulhu’s attack damage was something like “eats 1d6 PCs per round”). And the stats in the 3E book are prefaced with this: [pedantic mode]1d3[/pedantic mode] > [@](#): > > This suggests to me that they understand a use of these stats is a departure from the traditional mythos. > > The new stats aren’t as funny as the old ones (heh) were, but they’re kinda funny. Azathoth for example has a ranged attack he can it can use 24x daily: ranged touch attack of something like +90, inflicting 42d12 damage, no save. The range of the attack is 20 miles (meaning he can do it from 100 miles by taking a -10 penalty to that touch attack). I have to disagree with you on the purpose of the stats. The d20 CoC as you quoted are statted for epic challenges. In BRP CoC (woo! look at those old RPG acronyms fly!) they were statted so that the GM who couldn’t get past that mindset could work out what happens if the players ram Cthulhu with a cruise ship or drop a nuke on him. (BTW, The CoC RPG answer to what happens when you nuke Cthulhu is he reforms twenty minutes later and is now radioactive.) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/649 "2009-04-20T22:40:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > But redemption is going to be V’s story, isn’t it? That depends on what the oracle was going to say [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html). ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/650 "2009-04-20T22:58:18Z")
What happens if you kick reason to the curb, and punch Cthulhu so hard that time and space itself fractures? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/651 "2009-04-20T23:17:28Z")
I think they give you a job writing Superman comics at DC. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/652 "2009-04-20T23:20:19Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > [pedantic mode]1d3[/pedantic mode] Thanks, I knew it was something like that. > [@](#): > > I have to disagree with you on the purpose of the stats. The d20 CoC as you quoted are statted for epic challenges. Indeed, **which isn’t part of D20 CoC**. The D20 CoC rules contain no allowance for epic play. These stats are in an appendix intended for DMs who want to incorporate some elements of the Cthulhu mythos into a D&D campaign, not into a CoC campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/653 "2009-04-21T00:14:30Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > [pedantic mode]1d3[/pedantic mode] > > … > > (BTW, The CoC RPG answer to what happens when you nuke Cthulhu is he reforms twenty minutes later and is now radioactive.) [pedantic mode]_Fifteen_ minutes later[/pedantic mode] ref. Cthulhu Now … what? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/654 "2009-04-21T00:26:29Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > [pedantic mode]_Fifteen_ minutes later[/pedantic mode] > ref. Cthulhu Now > … what? [ultra-pedantic RPG nerd]1d10+10 minutes[/ultra-pedantic RPG nerd] Cthulhu 5E. For those of you reading the thread who don’t play RPG’s this really is how RPG nerds joke back and forth. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/655 "2009-04-21T00:34:47Z")
Man, 5E is _so_ broken. That, and it’s just like WoW now. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/656 "2009-04-21T01:11:37Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Man, 5E is _so_ broken. > > That, and it’s just like WoW now. It’s nothing like WoW. It’s more like Everquest. (I had to grind cthonians for days before they dropped that ultrarare investigators cap and then someone ninjaed it on me…) ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/657 "2009-04-21T01:15:41Z")
But we all recognize that Cthulu is the ultimate Load Bearing Boss, yes? I mean, knock him on the head with your boat and all of R’lyeh falls down! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/658 "2009-04-21T10:49:35Z")
Seriously, Cthulhu is science fiction about truly alien things. But… the world is different now from what it was in the 1920s. Maybe people wouldn’t go _as_ insane on seeing 'em. And hell, all it took was a boat and some explosives to take down the Big C. Let’s see how they like thermobaric bombs. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/659 "2009-04-21T12:28:42Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > (BTW, The CoC RPG answer to what happens when you nuke Cthulhu is he reforms twenty minutes later and is now radioactive.) By my calculations that gives us a five month head start to build more nukes. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/660 "2009-04-21T12:33:39Z")
Sure, laugh it up now guys. We’ll see whose laughing come December 12, 2012 as Cthulhu works his way through the earth’s population at a rate of 1d3 people every twelve seconds. Okay, admittedly a lot of people will be laughing, but it’ll be insane cackling of some kind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=34)