# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/701 "2009-04-22T23:50:13Z")
> [@choie](#): > > It’s an amazing story, both funny and surprisingly moving. The first strips give no hint to just how deep and character-developy things would get. Obviously, since my first exposure to OOtS was #629 (from the OP), I knew the strip was gonna get dark. I just didn’t realize how ugly some plots ended up – particularly the Miko / Shojo arc, and Roy and Therkla’s deaths. I’m also awed by how such simple stick figure drawings can display the required depths of characterization and inspire so much sympathy/emotional reactions in the reader. It’s a beautifully realized artistic world. It took me a while to get hooked too. I read some of the earliest strips and dismissed them as yet another nerd webcomic. Later on as the popularity picked up I looked in at a particularly uninteresting patch of stories to new readers (the first couple of strips of book 3 IIRC). Eventually it did catch me, though. > [@](#): > > Also, I’d use that thread for newbies/non-gamers to ask questions without all y’all D&D fans getting into extended debates that I swear seem just like a round of [Mornington Crescent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mornington_Crescent_(game)). :D) We didn’t even go for the… I better cut myself off there. I think it’s obvious you’re just begging for a game of Mornington Crescent to break out by just mentioning it in a thread like this. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Anyway, as far as current strips go, now that I’m finally caught up: I’m really realy hoping V is able to pull out of this spiral. S/he’s my second favorite character and while I’m used to my favorite characters dying or ending in some other horrible fate, I hope that’s not where Rich goes with this. Someone’s gotta get through to him/her. Though who’s gonna hold [the yellow crayon](http://vrya.net/bdb/clip.php?clip=3744)? Seems like it’d most likely be Roy or Haley. Though I could see Elan’s loyalty and innocence doing the job. I don’t see it as happening. V’s set up as a tragic figure and while there might be some attempt at redemption I don’t see Vaarsuvius surviving it. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/702 "2009-04-23T00:03:54Z")
We [know from the oracle](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html) that Belkar will be dead forever before the comic’s end, and there was a [hint that Belkar will be somehow responsible for Vaarsuvius’s death](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html). I’m thinking that Burlew’s going for a classic dark mirror here and will have Belkar and V’s earlier antagonism be lethal for both of them the next time around. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/703 "2009-04-23T00:15:35Z")
I’m intrigued by Elan’s view that taking Neutralize Poison as a 4th level spell was so important. Therkla’s dead and not coming back, right? Did he take that spell as a “just in case” precaution so he’ll be ready if he ever needs it for Haley? If so, that is some _serious_ growing up coming from him. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/704 "2009-04-23T00:21:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m intrigued by Elan’s view that taking Neutralize Poison as a 4th level spell was so important. Therkla’s dead and not coming back, right? Did he take that spell as a “just in case” precaution so he’ll be ready if he ever needs it for Haley? > > If so, that is some _serious_ growing up coming from him. Not necessarily Haley but he clearly took it because he realized that the time could come again when he won’t be able to depend upon someone else having healing standing by. Look at his choice of spells in general: Mass Cure Light, Neutralize Poison, Greater Dispel Magic, and he’s planning on taking Cure Serious Wounds. Elan is taking on responsibility for others. Which is kind of disappointing since my pet crazy theory was that he actually had very high Int and Wis scores and realized through his bardic knowledge of storytelling conventions that the innocent who wanders through in a haze always survives. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/705 "2009-04-23T00:27:16Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > That’s not something V would do, we’ve BARELY seen compassion from V (with Elan that one time), much less any emotion that would lead to a scene like that, if anything he’d insist what he did was the best possible action at the time (even though he knows of the other plan), but that Miss Starshine was right, it was past time to let go of them. Everyone has a Big No when the demon(s) come to collect. Everyone\*. Besides, his whole breakdown takes its roots in nothing \*but \*compassion, i.e. him not dealing with the fact that he was unable to save every last Azurite. It’s the Azurites’ suffering and the death of Roy that plague him, more than his failure. He merely whips himself for failing to avoid dealing with that grief. Imagine the shock when he realizes that this time not only did he fail to prevent suffering, but he also caused quite a lot of it, as I’m sure he’s wont to before the splice ends. But I admit it could go either way - it could start the redemption, or it could send him further 'round the bend, eventually deciding he needs the Snarl’s power to really get things done (and get out of the whole Soul Contract thing) \*Oh, all right, all right, everyone except John Constantine, who tricks him \*again \*and tells him to sit on it. Nit-picker. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/706 "2009-04-23T00:57:58Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > It took me a while to get hooked too. I read some of the earliest strips and dismissed them as yet another nerd webcomic. Later on as the popularity picked up I looked in at a particularly uninteresting patch of stories to new readers (the first couple of strips of book 3 IIRC). Eventually it did catch me, though. I think what hooked me was [#43](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html), the introduction of Nale and the Linear Guild; I’m a sucker for a well-done brother vs. brother storyline, and this really cemented Elan as the strip’s MVP for me. Before this arc he was basically Martin Prince in adventurer’s garb; now, he seemed more like _Xena_’s Joxer. Revealing a nemesis brought out a deeper, more sympathetic, sweet side to what had just been a hapless goofball. > [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I better cut myself off there. I think it’s obvious you’re just begging for a game of Mornington Crescent to break out by just mentioning it in a thread like this. 🙂 I still think all the stats and whatnot mentioned throughout the thread are an elaborate ruse. You guys _are_ making this stuff up as you go along, right? 🙂 > [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I don’t see it as happening. V’s set up as a tragic figure and while there might be some attempt at redemption I don’t see Vaarsuvius surviving it. I hope you’re wrong, but you probably aren’t. I’m just hoping that Rich doesn’t want to repeat the Miko arc so closely by having someone go batshit insane in the name of self righteousness/anger only to end in ignominy and death. Plus, AFAIC, nothing beats a good disgrace/redemption arc that results in a stronger, sadder-but-wiser character. Speaking of which… > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m intrigued by Elan’s view that taking Neutralize Poison as a 4th level spell was so important. Therkla’s dead and not coming back, right? Did he take that spell as a “just in case” precaution so he’ll be ready if he ever needs it for Haley? > > If so, that is some _serious_ growing up coming from him. Oh absolutely, though I agree that it’s not just for Haley. He seems to have taken his failures to heart and trying to prepare himself. I think Elan has really grown during this separation – really, ever since Nale switched places with him, his character has taken a slow but steady rise in skills and intelligence. Is that due to “leveling up,” I guess? I can’t imagine the idiot who blew up the castle way back in those early episodes managing to perform all the tasks he’s accomplished over the past 250 or so strips. Sadly, since he _is_ my favorite character, I fully expect him to defy the Oracle’s prediction and end tragically. It is the order of things. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/707 "2009-04-23T01:21:17Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > Sorry I disagree entirely with your post. > > First, the maturation of Elan and Haley have been major themes for a while and their character arcs since the separation has been about that. To suddenly go to such high school dramatics would be a step backward for both of them. I suspect we’ll see a joke along those lines next strip but that’s as far as it’ll go. > > Second, _the most awesome cleric spell ever_ is clearly Weather Control. It’s chock full of potential as Durkon has demonstrated. Regarding Elan and Haley and Elan telling Haley about Therkla, although I agree that Elan and Haley have shown maturation, there is a big fly in the ointment right then and there, and that is V. Recalling [comic #597](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0597.html), what if V becomes so frustrated at his continued failure to wow everybody with fantastic feats of high magic that he blurts something along the lines of his tirade to Elan on #597? Far-fetched, indeed. But perhaps not out of the realms of possibility. One has to hope, as someone wrote in the main OotS forum (paraphrasing), “V may be so strung out that he might end up disintegrating passers-by left and right, but hopefully sniping at Elan and Haley’s happiness will still be beneath him”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/708 "2009-04-23T01:23:52Z")
> [@choie](#): > > After checking out the first strip posted in this thread, I decided to start reading OOTS. And took four days to do it, no thanks to the godforsaken server from hell that is [giantitp.com](http://giantitp.com)’s homeworld. A classic case of “victim of your own success,” I think – the last few months, the server started occasionally coughing up hairballs if both comics on the site updated at once, and then more often when either updated, and now sometimes flakes out under general baseload traffic levels. > [@](#): > > I’m no RPGer by any stretch, and know only the most basic elements of D&D and adventure gaming, so I know I’m not getting most of the references and ‘rules’ that may be necessary to understanding the universe. If anyone’s curious about getting into the strip but gets the impression from this thread that it’ll be too opaque for non-RPG players … I don’t think it is. For me, someone with only a very rudimentary understanding, it works just as well as a general adventure/parody comic. Though a hefty portion of the world relies on game mechanics, a lot just requires knowledge of standard literary / dramatic tropes. The story works just fine if you have the usual geek-cultural-osmosis understanding of D&D – there’ll just be an occasional momentary pause while a joke flies over your head. > [@](#): > > Anyway, thanks to OOtS fans in this thread who got me into this incredible strip. I’m totally hooked. Heh heh heh… If you’re particularly interested in characterization, I’d recommend _Start of Darkness_ (the prequel volume describing Xykon and Redcloak’s backstory). There’s also a prequel volume for the OotS (_On The Origin of PCs_), but that’s nowhere near as rich in character development, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/709 "2009-04-23T01:34:10Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I still think all the stats and whatnot mentioned throughout the thread are an elaborate ruse. You guys _are_ making this stuff up as you go along, right? 🙂 Don’t be silly. It’s all 100% accurate. > [@](#): > > Sadly, since he _is_ my favorite character, I fully expect him to defy the Oracle’s prediction and end tragically. It is the order of things. There’s official word that Elan’s prediction is accurate and Haley might make get the same as a result, but they could be the only ones. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/710 "2009-04-23T01:55:59Z")
It can’t be a happy ending for Elan without Haley, and maybe Roy. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/711 "2009-04-23T02:26:38Z")
But Roy will be happy whether he lives or dies as long as he saves the universe from Xykon. And his afterlife looks pretty sweet, you gotta admit. Happiness equals: 1. Xykon destroyed. 2. Dad shown up. 3. Universe saved. 4. Afterlife with unlimited hot banging and eventual enlightenment 5. Reunited with mom, grandpa, and little Eric Seems to add up for me. That’s a soul satisfied with its earthly course and with no loose ends. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/712 "2009-04-23T02:28:51Z")
Sorry, I meant that it might not be a happy ending for Elan if Roy’s not around. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/713 "2009-04-23T04:19:12Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > We [know from the oracle](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html) that Belkar will be dead forever before the comic’s end, and there was a [hint that Belkar will be somehow responsible for Vaarsuvius’s death](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html). I’m thinking that Burlew’s going for a classic dark mirror here and will have Belkar and V’s earlier antagonism be lethal for both of them the next time around. The Oracle’s prophecy was that Belkar would kill “Roy, Miko, Miko’s horse, Vaarsuvius, or the Oracle.” Belkar killed the oracle, who was resurrected shortly thereafter. Prophecy fulfilled. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/714 "2009-04-23T04:25:27Z")
So where do you think he was going with “And as for the elf-”? ---
**Author:** ![Garula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Garula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garula)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/715 "2009-04-23T04:37:15Z")
It’s strips like this that remind me why Elan is my favorite character. He’s not particularly smart and he knows it, but he’s just so earnest. Everyone else in the party has their own motives and agendas, but he just wants everyone to be happy and to protect the people he cares about. And ever since escaping from jail he’s matured a lot while still maintaining that childlike optimism. Arguably, he’s still the weakest member of the party, but he’s certainly not worthless anymore. I really look forward to seeing how he gets on with Roy after he gets resurrected. Roy never respected him before, because there never really was much to respect, but what about now? Will Roy treat him like the person he’s become, or the PC he remembers? It’s really surprising how much I care about these stick figures. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/716 "2009-04-23T11:15:20Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > So where do you think he was going with “And as for the elf-”? Sweet lovin. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/717 "2009-04-27T08:44:07Z")
OOTS #648 is up. Knock knock. Who’s there? Roland. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/718 "2009-04-27T08:58:04Z")
Just in case we forgot that Haley is \*Chaotic \*Good. And based on the look on Belkar’s face, he knows exectly what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/719 "2009-04-27T09:23:35Z")
Okay… I didn’t expect that. “Meter’s running.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/720 "2009-04-27T09:46:39Z")
Go Haley! And I like the sharpness Elan shows towards V. I’ll probably be shown up as a dope in two strips, but I’ve got a feeling that this whole arc will wrap up in a big way in #650, just because Rich makes a point of never doing big things in strips with round numbers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=37)