# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/721 "2009-04-27T12:50:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Just in case we forgot that Haley is \*Chaotic \*Good. Of course when Haley dies, she’s going to have to explain to her Bureaucratic Deva about the calculated, pre-meditated murder she just pulled. I can’t see how that can be looked at as anything but an overtly evil act. “Tell her off-panel!” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/722 "2009-04-27T12:56:42Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Of course when Haley dies, she’s going to have to explain to her Bureaucratic Deva about the calculated, pre-meditated murder she just pulled. I can’t see how that can be looked at as anything but an overtly evil act. > > “Tell her off-panel!” Welcome to D&D morality. Crystal’s her rival and Haley’s chaotic so it’s perfectly justifiable to wait for a moment of weakness and try to finish them off. It falls under things like burning down “monster”'s villages while they’re sleeping and stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/723 "2009-04-27T13:12:17Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Of course when Haley dies, she’s going to have to explain to her Bureaucratic Deva about the calculated, pre-meditated murder she just pulled. I can’t see how that can be looked at as anything but an overtly evil act. > “Tell her off-panel!” She killed an evil character who had previously tried to kill her and might some day try to kill her again. My guess is that her greeter at Arborea or Ysgard will slap her on the back and give her a beer. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/724 "2009-04-27T13:25:58Z")
Haley knows full well that Crystal will get rezzed. She’s just sending a message – to Crystal, and to Bozzok. The revolving-door-o’-death in D&D sometimes makes murder a little less Evil, and more just mean (and expensive). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/725 "2009-04-27T15:01:00Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Go Haley! And I like the sharpness Elan shows towards V. > > I’ll probably be shown up as a dope in two strips, but I’ve got a feeling that this whole arc will wrap up in a big way in #650, just because Rich makes a point of never doing big things in strips with round numbers. I’m betting 650 will be when we finally see the order of the stick reunited. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/726 "2009-04-27T15:26:59Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I’m betting 650 will be when we finally see the order of the stick reunited. Well, that’s pretty much what I mean. The last arc ended with the fall of Azure City and the separation of the OotS. This one has been about their separate adventures and will end with their reunion. The next will no doubt be about taking on Xykon at Girard’s Gate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/727 "2009-04-27T16:36:43Z")
I was surprised to realize that in just seventeen strips, Roy will have been dead for a third of the entire story. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/728 "2009-04-27T17:16:52Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Of course when Haley dies, she’s going to have to explain to her Bureaucratic Deva about the calculated, pre-meditated murder she just pulled. I can’t see how that can be looked at as anything but an overtly evil act. > > “Tell her off-panel!” Yep. This probably won’t pull her down to “Evil”, but it might make “Good” a slight stretch. But do we know for certain that Haley was ever “Good”? It’s implied, but never stated, is it? She may have been “Neutral” in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/729 "2009-04-27T17:26:58Z")
Haley has stated that she’s _chaotic good-ish_, and that she has the same alignment as Elan. Elan shows every sign of being chaotic good. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/730 "2009-04-27T17:28:26Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Yep. This probably won’t pull her down to “Evil”, but it might make “Good” a slight stretch. > > But do we know for certain that Haley was ever “Good”? It’s implied, but never stated, is it? She may have been “Neutral” in the first place. She tested “Good” when exposed to potentially lethal radiation (read : Miko’s Detect Evil). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/731 "2009-04-27T17:40:59Z")
To be precise, she tested “not evil” which could possibly mean neutral. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/732 "2009-04-27T17:59:02Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Haley knows full well that Crystal will get rezzed. She’s just sending a message – to Crystal, and to Bozzok. Part of that message is probably, “Thanks for your favorite knife. The one you used to sunder my favorite bow.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/733 "2009-04-27T18:35:45Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > To be precise, she tested “not evil” which could possibly mean neutral. Good rebuttal. OK, how about this : she was affected by a goblin cleric’s Unholy Blight in an early strip the same way everyone but Belkar was. Unholy Blight does work on neutral chars, but only does half damage and doesn’t incapacitate. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/734 "2009-04-27T18:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Not necessarily Haley but he clearly took it because he realized that the time could come again when he won’t be able to depend upon someone else having healing standing by. Also remember when Elan himself got poisoned, and Roy had to put his manhood on the line to save him. That’s at least twice so far when Elan really needed a Neutralize Poison and Durkon wasn’t around to cast it. As for Haley’s actions in the current strip, I can’t see it as anything other than self-defense. For the past few comics, Crystal has not been a threat only because she’s tenuously held back by the deal with Bozzok. Now that the deal is off, she’s a clear and immediate threat again, and Haley just had the choice of fighting her when Crystal was unprepared, or when Haley herself was. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/735 "2009-04-27T18:50:37Z")
I don’t see why this counts as “premeditated murder.” Haley has killed plenty of people and things and things that used to be people. How is this any different? ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/736 "2009-04-27T18:56:03Z")
Where do you find the titles of the strips? I only see the strip number. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/737 "2009-04-27T19:12:41Z")
the strip archive names all the strips [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots.html](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots.html) The panel on the left hand side of the page has a link to the current strip, and shows its name. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/738 "2009-04-27T19:12:52Z")
See the “Comic Archive” icon at the top and bottom of the page? Press that. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/739 "2009-04-27T19:35:02Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > Welcome to D&D morality. Crystal’s her rival and Haley’s chaotic so it’s perfectly justifiable to wait for a moment of weakness and try to finish them off. It falls under things like burning down “monster”'s villages while they’re sleeping and stuff like that. What utter crap. Any DM worth anything would absolutely call a pre-meditated murder evil, as well as slaughtering a sleeping village. Just because _your_ idea of D&D morality is warped doesn’t mean that is how the rules work (it isn’t), and more importantly is not how everyone plays those rules in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/740 "2009-04-27T19:39:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t see why this counts as “premeditated murder.” Haley has killed plenty of people and things and things that used to be people. How is this any different? 1. Because Haley agreed to a truce. In D&D terms, it means that her killing is not justified by a hostile encounter. 2. Because she waited until her victim was in the shower where she could be sure of success and time to gloat. It was an evil act. A good character might be justified in provoking the encounter (outside of hostile action) with her rival if her rival were armed and had a chance to reasonably defend herself. Haley’s murder was cheap (in that her victim was essentially helpless), it was a betrayal of an agreement, and it was premeditated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=38)