# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/61 "2009-02-11T19:34:25Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Who’s to say V and his/her mate can’t be the same sex – they could be “life-long companions” to use the old ephemism. Both elflets are darker than either of the two. Adopted, perhaps? Or possible a Micheal Jackson joke, as someone pointed out on another forum. Born as dark skinned; pale and androgynous as adults. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/62 "2009-02-11T19:42:57Z")
Nah. They’re doing a MichAEl Jackson joke on Gobwin Knob right about now. They’d never have both comics making the same joke at once. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/63 "2009-02-11T19:46:36Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Nah. They’re doing a MichAEl Jackson joke on Gobwin Knob right about now. They’d never have both comics making the same joke at once. Both comics made a subway joke at once a while back. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/64 "2009-02-11T20:17:06Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Who’s to say V and his/her mate can’t be the same sex – they could be “life-long companions” to use the old ephemism. Both elflets are darker than either of the two. Adopted, perhaps? They’re 4th edition elves (which are of darker complexion and different hair color). It’s the same running joke as Haley’s father being a 1st edition Thief – as they go through the generations, they’ve gone through the D&D editions. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/65 "2009-02-11T20:28:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s only if the dragon were present. If she had no plan to kill V and just wanted to pass on her plan to kill V’s family, she could have sent it via some kind of message spell. She could have even done it after she had V’s family in captivity. I think she killed V’s family _before_ coming to visit V on the island. Why give Vaarsuvius a _tiny_ chance of defeating you, when you can give him none? _To give him hope._ And then dash it. That would be much more evil. I just hope Vaarsuvius realizes that she has no way to know if that dragon-mama is telling the _truth._ ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/66 "2009-02-11T20:34:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **DigitalC** :She didn’t have to wait, she chose to wait just to be on the safe side. The dragon is at least the equal of Vaarsuvius in spellcasting power, and probably superior, being the equivalent of a 14th or 15th level sorcerer, while Vaarsuvius is a 14th-level wizard, but also has a heck of a lot more HP, physical attacks, movement, endurance, saving throws, skills, and so on. Further, the dragon has made very intelligent choices to let her various abilities complement each other, such as learning Antimagic Field (a dragon in an antimagic field really is about as much of a Big Deal as she makes it out to be in the comic). Frankly, if the dragon had decided to take on the entire united party plus Hinjo, Lien, and Therkla, she probably still would have won. Waiting until V was alone and depleted was just about being absolutely certain. Yes, but when you are dealing with magic at that level, there are lots of instant-kill spells that only depend on who fails a saving throw first (see some of the effects of Prismatic Spray). Check out the battle between Redcloak and the high priest in Azure City. As someone set on defeating a mage of that level, you’d be wise to make sure that most of those spells were long gone, dragon or not. In a battle between a 20th level mage and a 14th level mage, you’d still be a fool to confidently place money on either one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/67 "2009-02-12T00:08:34Z")
How long-lived are OOTS elves, that kindergarteners are 26 years old?! ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/68 "2009-02-12T03:29:27Z")
[#630](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0630.html) is out, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/69 "2009-02-12T04:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > They’re 4th edition elves (which are of darker complexion and different hair color). Cool. Not being a D&D player, I miss the inside references like that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/70 "2009-02-12T04:51:59Z")
> [@](#): > > How long-lived are OOTS elves, that kindergarteners are 26 years old?! Pompey, who was a classmate of Roy’s 16-year-old sister Julia, was 43 himself. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/71 "2009-02-14T04:20:44Z")
[#631](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html) Um, YIKES. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/72 "2009-02-14T04:29:10Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > [#631](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html) Um, YIKES. V’s not going to go all warlocky or something now, is V? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/73 "2009-02-14T04:38:35Z")
Pre-approved. Never before have those words sent such a chill down my spine … 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/74 "2009-02-14T04:40:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How long-lived are OOTS elves, that kindergarteners are 26 years old?! Roughly the same as any other D&D elves. A 110 year old elf is equivalent to a 15 year old human. (Meaning a direct adjustment would make a kindergartener elf **36**.) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/75 "2009-02-14T04:53:54Z")
Bingo on whoever guessed the kids were adopted, too. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/76 "2009-02-14T05:47:04Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Roughly the same as any other D&D elves. A 110 year old elf is equivalent to a 15 year old human. (Meaning a direct adjustment would make a kindergartener elf **36**.) No, it isn’t. Drizzt Do’Urden left the academy of Melee-Magthere at the age of thirty, and that was in a book written 19 years ago. Plus, in the 3.5 sourcebook _Races of the Wild_ it was spelled out explicitly that elves do not mature that much more slowly than humans, with an elf of 25 about the same as a human of 20. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/77 "2009-02-14T05:53:58Z")
Good Lord, you just got all grognardy and quoted rulebooks to refute a joke in Order of the Stick. C’mon. We all know that Rich uses the stuff that makes the strip funny, and tosses out stuff when _that_ makes the strip funny. OotS elves are kindergardeners in their 20s because that is _funny_. It’s the same type of funny as why V and Other Parent are of indeterminate gender. I’m sure _Races of the Wild_ and some randomly obscure Salvatore book has something to say about _that_ too. But that way lies madness. And unfunnyness. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/78 "2009-02-14T06:04:25Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Good Lord, you just got all grognardy and quoted rulebooks to refute a joke in Order of the Stick. No, not to refute the joke, to refute the claim that it’s the same in the actual game, rather than just a common assumption. > [@Lightray](#): > > I’m sure _Races of the Wild_ and some randomly obscure Salvatore book has something to say about _that_ too. “Randomly obscure”? It’s more or less _the_ D&D novel, the one that introduces Drizzt Do’urden, the most famous character in any of the settings. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/79 "2009-02-14T06:15:50Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No, it isn’t. Drizzt Do’Urden left the academy of Melee-Magthere at the age of thirty, and that was in a book written 19 years ago. Plus, in the 3.5 sourcebook _Races of the Wild_ it was spelled out explicitly that elves do not mature that much more slowly than humans, with an elf of 25 about the same as a human of 20. Drizzt is a Drow, Drow aren’t the same as regular elves - your average Drow is lucky to survive long enough to reach adulthood by standard Elven standards. And Races of the Wild is contradicted by the _PHB_, which explicitly states that Elves reach adulthood at 110. (Whereas humans reach adulthood at 15.) If you want to take the secondary source as canon, that’s your choice, but the primary materials, and thus default is the core books. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/80 "2009-02-14T13:28:08Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > And Races of the Wild is contradicted by the _PHB_, which explicitly states that Elves reach adulthood at 110. (Whereas humans reach adulthood at 15.) > > If you want to take the secondary source as canon, that’s your choice, but the primary materials, and thus default is the core books. That isn’t how Wizards has been doing things. New books frequently contain updates to parts of the PHB (Quicken Spells becoming a swift action, rules concerning weaponlike spells in Complete Arcane, the new, less broken [Polymorph] subschool they’ve tried to create, etc), and this would be no exception. Given that it refers specifically to the information provided by the PHB as being incorrect, in the sourcebook for elves, there is no question that this is intended to supercede the previous book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=5)