# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/981 "2009-05-06T23:37:58Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > O-chul complimented the monster on picking up the game quickly before but it’s very possible that he was being polite. No, that comment he made wasn’t really for the Monster’s benefit. He said it in an aside during another explanation, in a smaller font. I think he was sincere. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/982 "2009-05-07T00:09:51Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > Chronos, the eyes in the monster’s formation were very badly formed and placed. … The real answer, of course, is that the board was set up to make the explanation easier for the reader. A large formation is easier to see than a small one and having the eyes as just one square each simplified the example… No, the real answer is that two little eyes in a big black space are intended to look like the MITD. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/983 "2009-05-07T01:00:49Z")
And here I thought they were playing Othello… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/984 "2009-05-07T02:01:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I just had a thought. Is it possible for a wizard to lose his/her ability to perform spells? Because if there’s one fate worse than death for Vaarsuvius, it might be if Xykon or Redcloak were to destroy V’s magic capability, leaving V with none of the skills s/he’s relied on for so long. There is one way, but it’s highly unlikely. If a wizard uses Disjunction on an artifact, there’s a chance that the artifact will be destroyed, and if that happens, then there’s a chance that the caster of the Disjunction will lose all spellcasting abilities irrevocably. In an interesting coincidence, Vaarsuvius is known to currently have access to Disjunction, is in a situation where e’s likely to consider it useful, and happens to be standing right in front of someone wearing an artifact. Naahh… ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/985 "2009-05-07T02:13:16Z")
Ooh. Now that’s interesting. (To put it mildly.) Another thought that strikes me as a result of your comment. What if V. doesn’t kill Xykon – which I don’t think any of us really expects, since it’s just Too Soon to lose such a major villain, especially at the hands of a troubled character like V. – but V. _does_ destroy the phylactery (sp)? This way we wouldn’t lose Xykon as a villain, and V. wouldn’t have the outright victory, but this _would_ be a considerable coup and leaves V. some dignity, which I think s/he deserves after so many humiliations. Plus it keeps Xykon in play so he’s available for Roy (who does have the blood oath to fulfill, after all) in a final showdown whenever the comic ends. Then the other scenario kicks in, i.e. V. loses his/her skillz, and faces this ultimate personal struggle to rehabilitate him/herself. Wow. I actually like this possibility and it seems to work to solve the problems of not killing V. _and_ not killing Xykon, while handing each a major blow. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/986 "2009-05-07T02:13:32Z")
For a reason I can’t quite articulate, one of my favorite parts was the demon roach yelling at the CitD, trying to keep it on Team Evil. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/987 "2009-05-07T04:14:14Z")
Oh, I see. Thanks very much for the Go lesson, JoseB and JSG. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/988 "2009-05-07T04:47:42Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Another thought that strikes me as a result of your comment. What if V. doesn’t kill Xykon – which I don’t think any of us really expects, since it’s just Too Soon to lose such a major villain, especially at the hands of a troubled character like V. – but V. _does_ destroy the phylactery (sp)? I just want it to be on the record that I made this prediction [first](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11102996&postcount=904). (Right after one of your posts, in fact. Don’t steal my ideas! :p) It’s a pretty good bet that V will go for the phylactery first. V is intelligent enough to know about such things and can conceivably correctly deduce that the holy symbol is the phylactery. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/989 "2009-05-07T04:48:42Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I’d have to dig out the book to check on that. A grue isn’t a bad guess but I’m still betting on it being something that D&D players will go “Oh it’s one of those! I can’t believe he used one of them!” Which would mean: > > [ul] > [li]Something official[/li][li]Something ridiculous[/li][li]Something powerful[/li][/ul] > > A trarasque is one of the obvious for overpowered monsters so naturally it’s the first place people go and it won’t be one of those. That’s why my money remains on giant fire breathing space hamster but there’s plenty of crazy stuff that it could be. Could it be something ridiculous but somewhat well known like Pun-Pun the kobold? I doubt he’d stretch it that far (not to mention the Pun-Pun build came out two years after OOTS started, but that partially involves wagering Rich had the WHOLE story planned out by then, and that he wasn’t willing to modify stuff). Note that it may not be Pun-Pun, but something else similarly overpowered and known. Another unlikely possibility is that the monster is “the DM.” The Earthquake, for instance, could be a play on the old line “rocks fall, everyone dies.” I really don’t believe these, but I like making stuff up. > [@Chronos](#): > > There is one way, but it’s highly unlikely. If a wizard uses Disjunction on an artifact, there’s a chance that the artifact will be destroyed, and if that happens, then there’s a chance that the caster of the Disjunction will lose all spellcasting abilities irrevocably. > > In an interesting coincidence, Vaarsuvius is known to currently have access to Disjunction, is in a situation where e’s likely to consider it useful, and happens to be standing right in front of someone wearing an artifact. > > Naahh… I thought that destroying an artifact simply had a high chance of gaining the attention of the deity it was attached to, and then said deity could manifest (or, really, do whatever they damn well please) in retaliation. Edit: Just looked it up, yeah, Disjunction loses spell powers on a failed Will save, but ALSO gains a very ornery deity’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/990 "2009-05-07T05:38:22Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I just want it to be on the record that I made this prediction [first](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11102996&postcount=904). (Right after one of your posts, in fact. Don’t steal my ideas! :p) > > It’s a pretty good bet that V will go for the phylactery first. V is intelligent enough to know about such things and can conceivably correctly deduce that the holy symbol is the phylactery. !!! Wow, I really missed that! Well, you’ll get credit for it then, should it come to pass. 😃 I’m still gonna claim the call if V. loses some or all spellcasting ability, though. I just think it would be one of those ironic twists that would both devastate the character (in a 'serves ‘im right’ sorta way) and result as an interesting development moving forward for the strip. Rich seems to gravitate toward plot twists that have longterm effects. In thinking about V’s fate, I can’t imagine him/her dying outright; that doesn’t give the demons as much to work with. It’s more painful if V’s debt isn’t just due upon death, it’s whenever the demons want to call it in. Or maybe I’m just flailing to come up with ideas where V doesn’t die a really ugly death. Considering s/he’s up against Xykon, Redcloak and the Creature in the Dark, and s/he’s been set up for a Tragic Error Due to Hubris … I’m still very worried, epic level soul splices or not. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/991 "2009-05-07T05:42:35Z")
> [@choie](#): > > !!! Wow, I really missed that! Well, you’ll get credit for it then, should it come to pass. 😃 > > I’m still gonna claim the call if V. loses some or all spellcasting ability, though. I just think it would be one of those ironic twists that would both devastate the character (in a 'serves ‘im right’ sorta way) and result as an interesting development moving forward for the strip. Rich seems to gravitate toward plot twists that have longterm effects. > > In thinking about V’s fate, I can’t imagine him/her dying outright; that doesn’t give the demons as much to work with. It’s more painful if V’s debt isn’t just due upon death, it’s whenever the demons want to call it in. > > Or maybe I’m just flailing to come up with ideas where V doesn’t die a really ugly death. Considering s/he’s up against Xykon, Redcloak and the Creature in the Dark, and s/he’s been set up for a Tragic Error Due to Hubris … I’m still very worried, epic level soul splices or not. Two things though: 1. Does it count as the vessel or the soul casting the spell? Will V lose his power, or the soul that the specific spell that broke the artifact came from? 2. Note that magic lost from Disjunction cannot come back by any MORTAL magic or cure, fiends are… less than mortal. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/992 "2009-05-07T05:57:41Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Two things though: > > 1. Does it count as the vessel or the soul casting the spell? Will V lose his power, or the soul that the specific spell that broke the artifact came from? Oy, I have no idea, but that’s a good question. (Hey, just because I’m posting on two of the geekiest threads in _Cafe Society_– this and my LOTR thread – doesn’t mean I know what I’m talking about!) D&D experts, little help here? > [@](#): > > 1. Note that magic lost from Disjunction cannot come back by any MORTAL magic or cure, fiends are… less than mortal. Oh dear. So hypothetically in this scenario, V. could be in for even _more_ of a debt, if s/he is so desperate to get some magic back that s/he keeps the splice? Man. Rich has _really_ built up a complex web rife with possibilities for intriguing plot twists. All from a bunch of stick figures romping around the D&D universe! ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/993 "2009-05-07T06:14:38Z")
Personally I’d put money on guess that we never find out what the CITD is because there isn’t anything that it is. Just a McGuffin to screw with people’s heads. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/994 "2009-05-07T07:41:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Is it possible for a wizard to lose his/her ability to perform spells? Because if there’s one fate worse than death for Vaarsuvius, it might be if Xykon or Redcloak were to destroy V’s magic capability, leaving V with none of the skills s/he’s relied on for so long. > [@](#): > > There is one way, but it’s highly unlikely. If a wizard uses Disjunction on an artifact, there’s a chance that the artifact will be destroyed, and if that happens, then there’s a chance that the caster of the Disjunction will lose all spellcasting abilities irrevocably. There’s another more obvious way. All Xykon has to do is shock Vaarsuvius to the point where the other two souls are able to break free. Then Vaarsuvius is down to his normal magical abilities which are far below Xykon’s. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/995 "2009-05-07T09:00:26Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I just want it to be on the record that I made this prediction [first](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11102996&postcount=904). (Right after one of your posts, in fact. Don’t steal my ideas! :p) > > It’s a pretty good bet that V will go for the phylactery first. V is intelligent enough to know about such things and can conceivably correctly deduce that the holy symbol is the phylactery. I dunno, he didn’t twig before, and IIRC was just as surprised as everyone else when news got around that Xykon wasn’t dead. I mean, he was but not \*dead \*dead ;). As for figuring out that Redcloak’s symbol is the phylactery, it’s not a given either - IANALich, but traditionally these things are hidden in a deep, dangerous dungeon half-way across the globe. Distance is important, because the lich is the first to know its soul hidey-place got busted, and thus can immediately start making a new one. Keeping one’s philactery in the same \*room \*one is in is… well, it’s just stupid, really. Which also makes it a clever gambit, of course (it’s the last place anybody would look), but the danger far outweighs the benefits IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/996 "2009-05-07T13:23:43Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Oy, I have no idea, but that’s a good question. (Hey, just because I’m posting on two of the geekiest threads in _Cafe Society_– this and my LOTR thread – doesn’t mean I know what I’m talking about!) D&D experts, little help here? The soul binding isn’t in the D&D rules anywhere, so there is no way to know how it would interact with such an obscure _disjunction_ rules effect. I think it very unlikely it will ever come up, though. Rich uses broader humor in this strip, and the kicker to V’s hubris won’t hinge on an obscure rule that only a tiny fraction of only the D&D grognards reading the strip will get. (He saves those types of jokes for strip titles.) V’s comeuppance will be something immediately recognizable as an obvious consequence to the vast majority of readers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/997 "2009-05-07T17:18:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Keeping one’s philactery in the same room one is in is… well, it’s just stupid, really. Which also makes it a clever gambit, of course (it’s the last place anybody would look), but the danger far outweighs the benefits IMO. Pay attention to these two strips: [448](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html) and [462](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html). And now who’s coincidentally there in the room again? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/998 "2009-05-07T17:23:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Pay attention to these two strips: [448](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html) and [462](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html). And now who’s coincidentally there in the room again? 442 reminds me just how delightfully evil Xykon is. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/999 "2009-05-07T17:58:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Could it be something ridiculous but somewhat well known like Pun-Pun the kobold? I doubt he’d stretch it that far (not to mention the Pun-Pun build came out two years after OOTS started, but that partially involves wagering Rich had the WHOLE story planned out by then, and that he wasn’t willing to modify stuff). Note that it may not be Pun-Pun, but something else similarly overpowered and known. It’s definitely not a kobold, that much we know. Belkar couldn’t recognize the tracks (they were completely unlike anything he knew), and even with his poor Survival check, he should be able to recognize the tracks of one of his favored enemies. > [@](#): > > Pay attention to these two strips: 448 and 462. And now who’s coincidentally there in the room again? Ooh, good catch. And I think we’re probably about due for the Monster doing something heroic, too, which might be what V needs to survive this fight. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1000 "2009-05-07T18:09:20Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > 442 reminds me just how delightfully evil Xykon is. 😃 Dammit to hell, I meant 448. Sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=51)