# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1001 "2009-05-07T18:25:00Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Dammit to hell, I meant 448. Sorry. 442 is just as good, though. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1002 "2009-05-07T18:34:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Pay attention to these two strips: [448](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html) and [462](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html). And now who’s coincidentally there in the room again? I don’t get it. Who? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1003 "2009-05-07T18:40:39Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > 442 is just as good, though. Why, yes it is, isn’t it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1004 "2009-05-07T19:00:55Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I don’t get it. Who? O-Chul was in the room when Soon mentioned the phylactery around Redcloak’s neck, and now he’s in the room with an elf who’s able to do something about it. Paralyzing Touch wouldn’t have prevented O-Chul from hearing, I imagine, just moving. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1005 "2009-05-07T23:19:11Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > As for figuring out that Redcloak’s symbol is the phylactery, it’s not a given either - IANALich, but traditionally these things are hidden in a deep, dangerous dungeon half-way across the globe. Distance is important, because the lich is the first to know its soul hidey-place got busted, and thus can immediately start making a new one. Keeping one’s philactery in the same \*room \*one is in is… well, it’s just stupid, really. Which also makes it a clever gambit, of course (it’s the last place anybody would look), but the danger far outweighs the benefits IMO. I have one of the Ravenloft books on liches, and it points out that if you hide the phylactery where NO ONE can find it, how will a killed lich get a new body? How does he check up on it to make sure no one accidentally finds it? Plus there’s the overweening ego thing; liches wouldn’t be liches in the first place without it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1006 "2009-05-07T23:57:57Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I have one of the Ravenloft books on liches, and it points out that if you hide the phylactery where NO ONE can find it, how will a killed lich get a new body? How does he check up on it to make sure no one accidentally finds it? Plus there’s the overweening ego thing; liches wouldn’t be liches in the first place without it. That sounds like backward excusing. There’s a million and one ways to deal with all of that and make it so secure that they won’t die. The obvious one is to drop it in the middle of the ocean and put a few not very noticeable wards around it that would let the lich know someone stumbled onto it. If they need to regrow a body they can do it on the bottom of the sea just as well as they could at the bottom of a dungeon. In Xykon’s case there’s a really good reason that his is Redcloak’s holy symbol but that’s a story reason (and yet another reference to _Start of Darkness_). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1007 "2009-05-08T02:55:48Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Plus there’s the overweening ego thing; liches wouldn’t be liches in the first place without it. I don’t know about that; there’s fates worse than ending up a walking corpse in D&D. Someone not inclined to religion in the Forgotten Realms might choose to become a lich or other undead just to avoid the Wall of the Faithless, for example. Or even as a means of avoiding the normal Lower Planes; in a world where a hellish afterlife actually exists for the evil, it’s kind of odd that the majority of evil types don’t get themselves vampired or lichified or something of the kind. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1008 "2009-05-08T04:35:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t know about that; there’s fates worse than ending up a walking corpse in D&D. Someone not inclined to religion in the Forgotten Realms might choose to become a lich or other undead just to avoid the Wall of the Faithless, for example. Or even as a means of avoiding the normal Lower Planes; in a world where a hellish afterlife actually exists for the evil, it’s kind of odd that the majority of evil types don’t get themselves vampired or lichified or something of the kind. You need to hit a certain level of power to get lichified, I think, and theoretically there’s a mere handful of people in any given world who are above level 10, much less 15 or 20. Plus there’s always the possibility (nay, probability) of getting struck down by a group of heroic adventurers before the evil plans can come to fruition. As for Xykon putting Redcloak in charge of the phylactery? Redcloak’s pretty powerful and intelligent in his own right, so he’s a good guardian for it. Being that it’s his holy symbol, it’s hiding in plain sight, and an adventurer’s first thought regarding a phylactery is that it will be well hidden. Pretty clever spot to hide it, all things considered. Then there’s the side benefit of not letting Redcloak forget that he’s tied to Xykon. The best thing D&D ever did for me was teach me the word phylactery. It’s such a great word to say and type. Phylactery! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1009 "2009-05-08T06:23:25Z")
> [@](#): > > As for Xykon putting Redcloak in charge of the phylactery? Redcloak’s pretty powerful and intelligent in his own right, so he’s a good guardian for it. Being that it’s his holy symbol, it’s hiding in plain sight, and an adventurer’s first thought regarding a phylactery is that it will be well hidden. Pretty clever spot to hide it, all things considered. Then there’s the side benefit of not letting Redcloak forget that he’s tied to Xykon. Actually it was Redcloak’s idea. He thought it would give him more control over Xykon. It was also Redcloak’s idea to turn Xykon into a lich and capture the Gates. People who haven’t read _Start of Darkness_ are surprised to learn that Redcloak was the original boss of the team. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1010 "2009-05-08T06:47:58Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > That sounds like backward excusing. There’s a million and one ways to deal with all of that and make it so secure that they won’t die. The obvious one is to drop it in the middle of the ocean and put a few not very noticeable wards around it that would let the lich know someone stumbled onto it. If they need to regrow a body they can do it on the bottom of the sea just as well as they could at the bottom of a dungeon. Considering the vast number of sentient species that live in the oceans of your average D&D world, you might as well drop the phylactery in the middle of a busy city street. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1011 "2009-05-08T07:23:04Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I have one of the Ravenloft books on liches, and it points out that if you hide the phylactery where NO ONE can find it, how will a killed lich get a new body? How does he check up on it to make sure no one accidentally finds it? Plus there’s the overweening ego thing; liches wouldn’t be liches in the first place without it. The point isn’t to hide it somewhere no one will ever find it, but to make it insanely hard to destroy \*both \*the lich and the philactery in one go. As long as the philactery’s out there, the lich will always come back. As long as the lich is undead and kicking, destroying the philactery doesn’t accomplish jack. As for checking on the status of the philactery, that’s what scrying magic, alarm wards etc… are for. I’ll grant you the ego thing, though. Xykon’s not the sharpest spoon in the drawer, but damn if he ain’t thinking of himself as a +5 Vorpal Katana. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1012 "2009-05-08T07:40:49Z")
… and it seems as though Rich has messed up his coding. Tsk, tsk. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1013 "2009-05-08T08:16:55Z")
I’d been wondering if anyone else was experiencing that problem. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1014 "2009-05-08T11:51:40Z")
It’s solved now. Most likely it was a little coding mistake during the latest Erfworld update. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1015 "2009-05-08T13:35:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Actually it was Redcloak’s idea. He thought it would give him more control over Xykon. It was also Redcloak’s idea to turn Xykon into a lich and capture the Gates. People who haven’t read _Start of Darkness_ are surprised to learn that Redcloak was the original boss of the team. Dang! I misremembered. I’ll clearly have to pull the book out and have another read. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1016 "2009-05-11T01:42:15Z")
[Xykon is badass](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1017 "2009-05-11T01:48:36Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > [Xykon is badass](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html). …Well then. There goes my prediction right out the window. Holy crap. But what puzzles me is Redcloak saying “I should have known immediately.” [The three demons](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) imply that this is something unique or at least incredibly rare. Does Redcloak really have that many ranks of Knowledge/religion? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1018 "2009-05-11T02:01:29Z")
Well, the three fiends say that it is a “special, once-a-century deal”. So not completely unknown. And it’s pretty obvious that Redcloak – much like Roy – did not use Int for his dump stat; I’d expect him to be pretty good at knowledge rolls. To my utter non-surprise, Haerta didn’t show up as an ally of Xykon. And V is getting pwned, here. Didn’t have much of a strategy worked out beyond _time stop_, apparently. Didn’t anticipate the bad guys being more clever, _or_ working together. Didn’t think that her Concentration check wouldn’t be up to snuff, without the actual levels that would have improved it to where it needs to be for tossing around 10th+ level spells. (_And_ forgot liches are immune to lightning; not like V at all) And just got disarmed of most of the high-level spells needed to take on Xykon (… who just tossed off a _12th level_ spell!). Xykon’s assessment is correct: V is a dumbass. Also, the GitP server still sucks. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1019 "2009-05-11T02:01:46Z")
Demons don’t always tell the truth. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1020 "2009-05-11T02:09:43Z")
Fuck a very large duck. I am hoping that things are looking especially bad for Vaarsuvius now so that we’ll be extra extra impressed when the tide turns later on, perhaps because Monster-San gets in the game. I can’t imagine V. is _completely_ without any cleverness – s/he’s shown some instinctive strategic abilities before in the strip (such as with Nale). If not, the elf’s toast. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=52)