# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1181 "2009-05-18T19:28:37Z")
Yeah, we may be seeing who or what the MitS is sooner than we thougth. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1182 "2009-05-18T19:29:27Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Awright! Looks like it’s time for O-Chul to kick some ass! Aw, man…I’m sitting here at work all sniffly over the reaction of a pair of loosely defined eyes in a black cloud, dammit… Burlew’s GOOD! ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1183 "2009-05-18T19:31:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Burlew’s GOOD! I thought he was neutral. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1184 "2009-05-18T19:42:32Z")
I really like that, between O-Chul, Hinjo, and Lien, we’ve got three _really excellent_ paladin rolemodels… that are very different from each other, and more importantly _completely_ different from the awful “the stick comes as a class feature” paladin stereotype common to D&D of yore (= Miko). ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1185 "2009-05-18T19:46:52Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Aw, man…I’m sitting here at work all sniffly over the reaction of a pair of loosely defined eyes in a black cloud, dammit… Yar, same here. The eyes finally calling out the name at the end… Wow. Choked. Me. Up. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1186 "2009-05-18T20:00:05Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I really like that, between O-Chul, Hinjo, and Lien, we’ve got three _really excellent_ paladin rolemodels… that are very different from each other, and more importantly _completely_ different from the awful “the stick comes as a class feature” paladin stereotype common to D&D of yore (= Miko). Absolutely. Being my favorite fantasy archetype, I always love it when I see a Paladin characterized as something other than Lawful Stupid. Goblins (another worthy D&D-inspired webcomic) has [one strip in particular](http://www.goblinscomic.com/d/20061223.html) that’s inspirational and makes me want to take up a Paladin again. “So others don’t have to” and “Because I’m the only one who can” form the core of the ideal I try to aspire to. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1187 "2009-05-18T20:14:48Z")
So if Xykon kills O-Chul, then the Creature in the Dark kills Xykon, who gets the XP? Does V get any? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1188 "2009-05-18T20:20:24Z")
Wowsers. At first I was all “oh good GOD get back to the Vaarsuvius fight!” but of course, O-Chul is win-tastic and I’m glad to see him get free and take a noble stance, managing to appeal to MitD _and_ crush one of those damn annoying roaches at the same time. Awesome and rather sad. The monster finally using his name was actually moving, and this despite the fact that the MitD has always kinda annoyed me (the pathos is laid on a bit thick with him). If someone’s gotta die from this battle – and I think they do – I’m all for it being O-Chul, especially since I suspect he’s served his main purpose of playing a crucial role in MitD’s development. I’ve got two guesses about what’ll happen: 1. He goes straight for the phylactery, having remembered it from back in Shojo’s throne room. Destroys phylactery and is swiftly killed. 2. He goes for Xykon and prevents/distracts Xykon from killing Vaarsuvius. Of course I don’t know enough about D&D rules, but Xykon’s gotta be hurting a bit from the sunburst, so maybe O-Chul gives him some damage. Then is killed. Either way, V. is bought some time. S/he either escapes (crawling out the huge gaping hole made in the castle) or the distraction is enough to convince Redcloak to keep V. and find out what s/he knows about the gate. Thus s/he’s captured alive to substitute for O-Chul. Humility (and humiliation) ensues. I’m on tenterhooks, that’s for sure! Rich Burlew really knows how to pour on the cliffhangers. And notice, the server held up despite the onslaught! Pretty impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1189 "2009-05-18T20:31:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I really like that, between O-Chul, Hinjo, and Lien, we’ve got three really excellent paladin rolemodels… that are very different from each other, and more importantly completely different from the awful “the stick comes as a class feature” paladin stereotype common to D&D of yore (= Miko). For that matter, Thanh hasn’t done too poorly, either. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1190 "2009-05-18T21:04:55Z")
Unreal. As I finish each strip lately, I _always_ think that the next one is going to be just amazing and climactic, and that next one just get me more worked up to read the next one, and the bottom line is that I’m jumping out of my freakin’ SKIN over here. Rich Burlew is an outstanding storyteller, and that he’s creating all this with broadly drawn D&D stick figures is just unreal. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1191 "2009-05-18T21:15:32Z")
Oooooookay. Here we go. Somebody fill me in on paladins. Is there any chance that O-Chul could face down Xykon and do any meaningful damage? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1192 "2009-05-18T21:26:17Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Oooooookay. Here we go. Somebody fill me in on paladins. Is there any chance that O-Chul could face down Xykon and do any meaningful damage? Smite Evil damage is independent of the weapon used, and O-Chul is a pretty strong Paladin. Xykon hasn’t had a chance to get healed (unhealed?) by Redcloak yet, so if he struck now he could probably do some serious damage. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1193 "2009-05-18T21:30:36Z")
O-Chul has Smite Evil as a class ability, which we’ve seen used to good effect against Xykon before. And after that Sunburst, Xykon doesn’t have _many_ hp remaining, as discussed above. However, Team Evil has a high-level cleric and a mystic theurge, both of whom will have oodles of _inflict_ spells, so it’s debatable whether O-Chul will end up doing “serious damage”. However, he’s certainly correct that this would be the moment to take action, if ever. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1194 "2009-05-18T21:30:54Z")
Could O-Chul possibly turn Xykon? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1195 "2009-05-18T21:36:47Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Could O-Chul possibly turn Xykon? Doubtful. Paladins turn as a Cleric 3 levels lower (so if O-Chul’s a level 10 Paladin, his Turn Undead works the same as a level 7 Cleric’s), so he’s naturally weaker at it than a Cleric would be. Turn Undead rules only allow you to affect a maximum of your effective cleric level + 4. Adding those together, and assuming Xykon is level 20 (since he’s used some epic spells, he’s probably higher), then O-Chul would need to be at minimum level 19 to have a chance of affecting Xykon, and I find that highly unlikely. Yes, Burlew’s ignored the exact rules when it suits him, but disregarding the math, the point is that O-Chul would need to be nearly as powerful as Xykon in order to have a chance at turning him, and I doubt he’s anywhere near that. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1196 "2009-05-18T22:20:14Z")
Actually, this is an excellent moment to ask something that’s been bothering me for ages and thus demonstrate my total ignorance of D&D: What exactly does ‘Turn Undead’ mean? Obviously, it’s a way of fighting undead creatures, but how, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1197 "2009-05-18T22:25:01Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Actually, this is an excellent moment to ask something that’s been bothering me for ages and thus demonstrate my total ignorance of D&D: What exactly does ‘Turn Undead’ mean? Obviously, it’s a way of fighting undead creatures, but how, exactly? It strikes fear of the paladin and their holy god into the undead, causing them to run away in fear or, if the paladin is significantly more powerful than the undead, disintegrate completely. “Turn” in this case means “turn them away”. Rebuke is the evil cleric option, where instead of frightening/destroying the undead, it causes them to cower or follow the cleric’s command. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1198 "2009-05-18T22:26:48Z")
Ah! Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1199 "2009-05-18T22:30:06Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Absolutely. Being my favorite fantasy archetype, I always love it when I see a Paladin characterized as something other than Lawful Stupid. > > Goblins (another worthy D&D-inspired webcomic) has [one strip in particular](http://www.goblinscomic.com/d/20061223.html) that’s inspirational and makes me want to take up a Paladin again. “So others don’t have to” and “Because I’m the only one who can” form the core of the ideal I try to aspire to. Thank you for linking Goblins. I’d never heard of it before and I spent the last hour and a half at work this afternoon reading from the beginning. They take on the “D&D Morality” argument early on. And I think Minmax is my new comic strip crush…the artist REALLY seems to like drawing him from behind, and I, as a reader, don’t mind one bit… ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1200 "2009-05-18T22:34:55Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Thank you for linking Goblins. I’d never heard of it before and I spent the last hour and a half at work this afternoon reading from the beginning. They take on the “D&D Morality” argument early on. > > And I think Minmax is my new comic strip crush…the artist REALLY seems to like drawing him from behind, and I, as a reader, don’t mind one bit… It’s a fantastic comic IMO. The story perhaps isn’t quite as strong as OotS’s, but the premise is excellent and the characters are a lot of fun. And the art is funky, but it grows on you by the end of the archive. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=61)