# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1281 "2009-05-20T20:43:12Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Also be sure to check out the Tempts Fate section. It’s a series of entertaining short adventures driven by donations that’s disconnected from the main story. Oh, that’s funny. Tempts Fate 7: “Order of the Stick is better!” Too, too funny… ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1282 "2009-05-20T20:43:28Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Well, really though, Redcloak is being just as dumb as V about using _disintegrate_. This is the _second_ time he’s used it on a paladin without scoring a fatality – using a Fort save spell on a paladin is just as foolish as using one on a dragon. And not just any paladin, either. O’Chul doesn’t make Fortitude saves: Fortitude makes O’Chul saves. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1283 "2009-05-20T20:46:11Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > There’s also O’Chul’s possible mount which he should be able to summon if he can spare a turn for it. Though i doubt that’ll come up. Cloister would block the summons, no? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1284 "2009-05-20T20:50:16Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Cloister would block the summons, no? Cloister didn’t block V’s teleport, though? Should it have? (I’m asking as to whether the strip ever mentioned that aspect. I know Cloister doesn’t exist in standard D&D rules.) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1285 "2009-05-20T20:52:44Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Cloister didn’t block V’s teleport, though? Should it have? (I’m asking as to whether the strip ever mentioned that aspect. I know Cloister doesn’t exist in standard D&D rules.) V used Epic Teleport, and even then the souls were having trouble punching through the Cloister spell, but they managed. See [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0650.html). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1286 "2009-05-20T20:56:11Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > V used Epic Teleport, and even then the souls were having trouble punching through the Cloister spell, but they managed. See [here](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0650.html). :smack: I completely didn’t connect the “turbulence” with the Cloister spell! ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1287 "2009-05-20T20:56:43Z")
I just had a thought. Whatever happens next, Xykon will survive and remain a major part of the story. The Oracle predicted that the next gate that Xykon would be close to would be Girard’s Gate, which can’t happen if he is destroyed now. Which is good, because that’s Roy’s ultimate victory waiting to happen. Nothing protects O-Chul or V at this point, though. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1288 "2009-05-20T21:00:52Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > The Oracle predicted that the next gate that Xykon would be close to would be Girard’s Gate, which can’t happen if he is destroyed now. No, the Oracle told Roy that of the two gates Roy asked about, Xyklon was closest to Girard’s Gate. ---
**Author:** ![Iacob\_Matthew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Iacob\_Matthew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iacob_Matthew)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1289 "2009-05-20T21:01:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I can’t find anything online that says they can. On the other hand, I can’t find anything online that says they can’t, either. There isn’t anything either way. However, to become a demi-lich they need 9, so it’s likely they can create more. However, it takes 4 months to make one. So, while he mentioned a few comics back\* that he’s been spending his downtime crafting magic items, it’s unlikely that he has more than 1 or 2. And if this is the only one, he’s mortal for a long, long time. \*during the “torture O’Chul” strip, coincidentally. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1290 "2009-05-20T21:04:37Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No, the Oracle told Roy that of the two gates Roy asked about, Xyklon was closest to Girard’s Gate. This is what I remembered, too, but since I’ve been adding cites to all my posts in this thread so far, I went looking for the exact question. [Check it out.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) > [@The Oracle](#): > > Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard’s Gate first. **shantih** ’s right, this isn’t Xykon’s final battle by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1291 "2009-05-20T21:17:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m pretty sure smite doesn’t make an attack magic, the weapon has to be magic. Of course, like I said before, this isn’t strict D&D rules. Smite doesn’t, but there are a variety of [paladin](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWeapon.htm) [spells](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeapon.htm) that do, and O-Chul should be easily high enough level to be able to cast them. And another thing, it’s O-Chul, with a hyphen, not O’Chul. He’s Azurite, not Irish. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1292 "2009-05-20T21:37:06Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Cloister would block the summons, no? Dorukan specifically made Cloister to exempt summonings from its effects. (for his Summon Booty Call spell.) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1293 "2009-05-20T21:41:07Z")
One advantage that O-chul has that is being overlooked: surprise. Xykon is busy gloating and that fight lasted perhaps two rounds. He hasn’t noticed anything going on yet. From that strip we know that O’chul has no paladin objections to using surprise against these enemies. He should be able to get in at least one free smite evil. If he’s still holding the phylactery when he does this then Xykon might be too rattled to do something effective… ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1294 "2009-05-20T21:44:39Z")
> [@Iacob\_Matthew](#): > > However, it takes 4 months to make one. So, while he mentioned a few comics back\* that he’s been spending his downtime crafting magic items, it’s unlikely that he has more than 1 or 2. And if this is the only one, he’s mortal for a long, long time. There you go for a resolution. O-Chul and V smash the phylactery and narrowly finish off Xykon but he’s made a back-up. It’s got multiple reversals, a “what are they going to do now?!” factor, and lets there be a victory. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1295 "2009-05-20T21:47:30Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Cloister would block the summons, no? Wasn’t it explicitly stated when they introduced the spell that for “some reason” cloister didn’t block summons (with a cutaway gag to the spell’s creator summoning various celestials and outsiders for… _ahem_ various reasons)? Edit: Also, doesn’t a Lich suffer Con damage while he’s without a phylactery or am I making stuff up again? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1296 "2009-05-20T21:55:56Z")
I just hope O’Chul is smart enough to smash the phylactery immediately instead of making a big speech and threatening Xykon with it. He’s Lawful Good, not Lawful Stupid, and while honor might demand that he confront his opponent, there comes a time when you must sacrifice your honor to fulfill your vow. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1297 "2009-05-20T22:04:08Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Edit: Also, doesn’t a Lich suffer Con damage while he’s without a phylactery or am I making stuff up again? Undead don’t have Con scores. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1298 "2009-05-20T22:10:25Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Wasn’t it explicitly stated when they introduced the spell that for “some reason” cloister didn’t block summons (with a cutaway gag to the spell’s creator summoning various celestials and outsiders for… _ahem_ various reasons)? Not “various celestials and outsiders”. Once again it’s in _Start of Darkness_. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1299 "2009-05-20T22:13:39Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > Not “various celestials and outsiders”. Once again it’s in _Start of Darkness_. Oh right, it was Lirian wasn’t it? > [@Miller](#): > > Undead don’t have Con scores. That must’ve been a house rule or something then, we heavily modified how a lot of undead work. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1300 "2009-05-21T02:38:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I just hope O’Chul is smart enough to smash the phylactery immediately instead of making a big speech and threatening Xykon with it. He’s Lawful Good, not Lawful Stupid, and while honor might demand that he confront his opponent, there comes a time when you must sacrifice your honor to fulfill your vow. O-Chul seems to be the type who sees what he needs to do and does it in the most direct way. He’s not the type to talk about it first. So I’m sure he’ll destroy the phylactery immediately unless he has a very good reason to keep it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=66)