# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1341 "2009-05-23T18:11:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Eh. I think I could do it with a party of three 13th level characters. (wis damage) I don’t think that’d work… Aren’t undead immune to ability score damage? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1342 "2009-05-23T18:36:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t think that’d work… Aren’t undead immune to ability score damage? All I know for sure is that they don’t take Constitution damage because…well, because they don’t have a Constitution, per se. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1343 "2009-05-23T21:10:35Z")
I’m pretty sure it’s just con damage. I’m not using poisons, I’m using psionics. They’re immune to poisons, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1344 "2009-05-25T10:09:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t think that’d work… Aren’t undead immune to ability score damage? Only to their physical stats (STR, DEX and CON). ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1345 "2009-05-25T18:22:54Z")
From the D20 SRD: Undead Traits: Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromantic effects, mind-affecting effects, and any effect requiring a Fortitude save unless it also works on objects. Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Negative energy heals. Not at risk of death from massive damage, but destroyed at 0 hit points or less. Darkvision 60 ft. Cannot be raised; resurrection works only if creature is willing. Looks like my trick wouldn’t work. Hm… but I do have a Fort trick that works on objects. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1346 "2009-05-25T18:58:53Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > From the D20 SRD: > > (snip) > > Looks like my trick wouldn’t work. Hm… but I do have a Fort trick that works on objects. That cite looks like it’s from the 3.0 SRD. Things got changed a bit in 3.5. From the [online SRD](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) : > [@](#): > > Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. In particular, note that Undead are vulnerable to ability damage inflicted on their Int, Wis or Cha; they are, however, immune to ability _drain_ (which means you can’t permanently KO them in this way). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1347 "2009-05-26T12:11:05Z")
[New page up.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html) Things are looking marginally better for V, significantly worse for O-Chul. Help them, MitD, you’re their only hope! ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1348 "2009-05-26T12:46:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > [New page up.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html) > > Things are looking marginally better for V, significantly worse for O-Chul. > > Help them, MitD, you’re their only hope! in the last panel, Xykon is saying “Now, where did that elf go?” Which implies he has finished with O’Chul, though whether he is incapacitated or dead is undetermined. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1349 "2009-05-26T12:59:52Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > in the last panel, Xykon is saying “Now, where did that elf go?” Which implies he has finished with O’Chul, though whether he is incapacitated or dead is undetermined. Ironically if he had held onto the holy symbol instead of throwing it down and trying to smash it O-Chul might have been better off. Xykon couldn’t throw around spells like that without potentially breaking it and O-chul could have used it as a hostage to get away. I don’t think it’s time for the Monster to turn simply because it would be obvious now. I see it more as a starting point. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1350 "2009-05-26T13:22:26Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > in the last panel, Xykon is saying “Now, where did that elf go?” Which implies he has finished with O’Chul, though whether he is incapacitated or dead is undetermined. The fact that it’s technically undetermined means that actually _is_ determined. If O-Chul were dead, his eyes would’ve been “X”'d rather than squinted in pain. The only reason to leave his status up in the air is to keep him alive (unless Burlew has fully taken the mantle of Evil Storyteller). Of course, O-Chul can’t have much left in the tank. Hell, this strip has him taking Meteor Swarm and Maximized Lighting Bolt damage – that alone would kill 99% of characters. Hmmm…so, if the Cowled Three can only act directly on the mortal plane when making a deal, what’s stopping them from heading up to Azure City, putting a time stop on the fight, and making a new, revised deal with V? Anything to keep him alive would seem to be the main goal at the moment, no? ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1351 "2009-05-26T13:46:04Z")
So, here’s V, weakened and invisible, much as during the battle. Who else thinks he, possibly she, will make the other choice this time and stay and fight rather than abandon an ally? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1352 "2009-05-26T13:56:17Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > … Of course, O-Chul can’t have much left in the tank. Hell, this strip has him taking Meteor Swarm and Maximized Lighting Bolt damage – that alone would kill 99% of characters. He’s a paladin, though. Good hp, bonus to saves, and _lay on hands_ make them pretty durable. And O-Chul seems to have taken every “get through this crap” feat he could get. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1353 "2009-05-26T14:38:48Z")
Hmm…wonder if V still has a Featherfall in his pocket. There’s still that gaping hole in the wall that’s just begging for someone to jump through it. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1354 "2009-05-26T15:30:58Z")
V isn’t going to chicken out. Again. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1355 "2009-05-26T16:04:51Z")
Not sure what we’re gonna see with V, although, if I recall correctly, invisibility lasts a good long time. The thing with O-chul though… Not sure how I feel about that. I mean, having him do the major damage to X would’ve been a little anticlimactic, sure, but… What occured was almost equally anticlimactic in my eyes. The battle-hardened veteran and all-around good guy finally has his moment of awsome heroism, and… Oh. The phylactery is too tough for him to damage. Sad trombone noise. It makes the escape and ensuing attacks seem just kinda… I dunno… Pointless. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1356 "2009-05-26T16:11:41Z")
> [@ArrMatey](#): > > Not sure what we’re gonna see with V, although, if I recall correctly, invisibility lasts a good long time. > > The thing with O-chul though… Not sure how I feel about that. I mean, having him do the major damage to X would’ve been a little anticlimactic, sure, but… What occured was almost equally anticlimactic in my eyes. The battle-hardened veteran and all-around good guy finally has his moment of awsome heroism, and… Oh. The phylactery is too tough for him to damage. Sad trombone noise. It makes the escape and ensuing attacks seem just kinda… I dunno… Pointless. Welcome to paladinhood. It’s the only D&D character class that makes Don Quixote look like a cynic. The whole IDEA of being a paladin is doing things because they’re the right thing to do. And sometimes a paladin’s faith and effort actually make that right thing the effective thing. But mostly they don’t. To dream the impossible dream… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1357 "2009-05-26T16:15:08Z")
> [@ArrMatey](#): > > although, if I recall correctly, invisibility lasts a good long time. In the 3.5 rules, a simple _invisibility_ spell (which is what it looks like V cast) lasts one minute per caster level. Since we know that V is in the mid-teens for level, that’d last for more than long enough to get out of the immediate area…but it’d be dispelled if he/she made any attack. > [@ArrMatey!](#): > > The thing with O-chul though… Not sure how I feel about that. I mean, having him do the major damage to X would’ve been a little anticlimactic, sure, but… What occured was almost equally anticlimactic in my eyes. The battle-hardened veteran and all-around good guy finally has his moment of awsome heroism, and… Oh. The phylactery is too tough for him to damage. Sad trombone noise. It makes the escape and ensuing attacks seem just kinda… I dunno… Pointless. I note that O-Chul’s eyes are still not “Xs” after Xykon hits him with the maximized Lightning Bolt, so I don’t think his story is over quite yet. My guess is that V tries to slip through the door to the stairs, which draws Xykon’s attention just long enough for O-Chul to get in one good hit on the lich. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1358 "2009-05-26T16:25:29Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > So, here’s V, weakened and invisible, much as during the battle. Who else thinks he, possibly she, will make the other choice this time and stay and fight rather than abandon an ally? Does V have Antimagic Field prepared? If so, this battle is going to get very hilarious very quickly. (And is going to do a number on any non-Epic abjurations on the holy symbol, for that matter.) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1359 "2009-05-26T16:33:15Z")
Boy, that poor elf just can’t catch a break. I agree, **shantih** , the significance of V. walking around invisible and nearly useless while an Azurite is getting pummeled can’t be missed. I hope this is where V. gets hit upside the head with a clue brick (not to mention the beginning of a redemption). **ArrMatey!** , I’m with you – a bit anticlimactic, but on the other hand, he managed to get the phylactery away from Redcloak. V. was around to hear Xykon talking about the phylactery, so now V. knows of its importance as well. It’s possible (and my ultimate hope) that V. doesn’t just escape but manages to either damage or steal the phylactery on his way out the big fat hole in the castle wall. At least that would give V. some tiny victory rather than being completely useless. (Although his attack did give O-Chul the opportunity to escape in the first place, so it really wasn’t as useless as V. and Xykon – and frankly, many people over at the Giant forums – think it was.) Very interesting tidbit from the fiends, i.e. that they don’t want V. to die (yet, anyway). That seems to end speculation that they just want V’s soul after death. Which confirms what a lot of us are thinking – that V. is gonna be a tool in the fiends’ plan for the Snarl, whatever that is. Since the threesome can’t take active part in saving V’s slender elven ass, what about Varr? Can he zip over and help an elf out in his/her time of need? Alas, poor Jirix. We knew him, Horatio. I kinda liked that orange little dude. Wonder if Redcloak will resurrect him? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1360 "2009-05-26T16:34:41Z")
Gosh, the only thing that could destroy that phylactery now is a fleet of pissed-off dragons. I wonder if we know anybody who’s made any dragons angry recently. Actually, in all seriousness, this is a good time for V’s redemption. Throwing the phylactery into the Snarl wouldn’t do much on that score; V would have to rescue O-Chul for that to happen. Although I don’t really see how… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=69)