# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 77
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1521 "2009-06-06T14:03:52Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Those demons are as good as a Greek chorus (or a forum). “What happens if the amulet falls in?” “Why is the bird just hovering there?” > What’s the record for most consecutive cliffhangers in a web comic? > > I’m still not sure what explosive runes will accomplish – they’re not that powerful a spell, are they? For some reason the evil clerics left without healing Xykon, so as far as we can tell, he may have as little as 1 HP remaining. Of course at least one of Xykon+Phylactery will survive. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1522 "2009-06-06T14:07:18Z")
My suspicion, given the bird’s poignant thoughts, is that the blast kills the bird, causing the phylactery to fall. Whether it hits the snarl before Xykon grabs it is anyone’s guess. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1523 "2009-06-06T14:34:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > 6d6 force damage, no save\*. That’s quite a lot, better than many higher level spells in fact. Not really. It’s low, even for a 3rd-level spell. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1524 "2009-06-06T15:02:44Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Not really. It’s low, even for a 3rd-level spell. 6d6 isn’t huge, but no attack roll + no save makes it so, esp. against an epic character decked in so much magical gear it’s not even funny anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1525 "2009-06-06T15:37:38Z")
6d6 would average out to about 21 points of damage, maximum 36. It’s possible with as much punishment Xykon has taken, it might be enough to put a serious crimp in his day. However, for dramatic reasons, I see very few ways that Xykon will be destroyed _presuming_ that this is the end of the phylactery. It’s one or the other. If the phylactery falls into the Snarl, then Xykon _must_ proceed as if it were destroyed. It’s highly doubtful that he would be able to detect the phylactery on the other side, even if it survived. And if he dies, he’s going to be reconstituted within the phylactery, wherever it happens to be. That’s probably not a good option for him, if the phylactery is hanging out in Snarl world intact. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1526 "2009-06-06T15:55:12Z")
You guys don’t really think Rich is rolling dice, do you? The drama of the story requires that Xykon have few enough hit points that Explosive Runes will hurt him. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1527 "2009-06-06T16:10:29Z")
Of course he’s not rolling dice. But he is using the rules — quite flexibly, I must stress — to tell a realistic story. Analyzing the spell Rich has chosen gives us some insight into the range of possible outcomes, and “Xykon is seriously hurt by this” is within range. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1528 "2009-06-06T16:35:51Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > You guys don’t really think Rich is rolling dice, do you? The drama of the story requires that Xykon have few enough hit points that Explosive Runes will hurt him. You don’t really think that the three fiends discussing how Xykon couldn’t risk _blasting_ Blackwing just a panel beforehand is meaningless foreshadowing, do you? Xykon can’t risk blasting Blackwing or the amulet will fall into the rift. Xykon is about to blast Blackwing, courtesy of _explosive runes_. Anyway, we’ve seen Xykon much more scuffed up with hatch-marks, back when Soon almost killed him. He’s still got hp left now. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1529 "2009-06-06T17:34:02Z")
Wait. Am I misunderstanding something? _Vaarsuvius_ cast explosive runes, right? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1530 "2009-06-06T17:34:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey! Didn’t someone predict V’s action a few pages back? Yes. Yes I did. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1531 "2009-06-06T17:43:48Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Wait. Am I misunderstanding something? _Vaarsuvius_ cast explosive runes, right? Yes, but it looks like Xykon has just _triggered_ them. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1532 "2009-06-06T17:49:44Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Yes, but it looks like Xykon has just _triggered_ them. Yeah, so I suppose in a manner of speaking, Xykon blasted Blackwing. OK, so what are the consequences? Does the phylactery get blown into the Snarl? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1533 "2009-06-06T18:05:15Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Yeah, so I suppose in a manner of speaking, Xykon blasted Blackwing. OK, so what are the consequences? Does the phylactery get blown into the Snarl? That’s where this seems to be heading. ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1534 "2009-06-06T18:24:50Z")
Man, that is fantastic! That last panel alone should earn Rich some kind of award for epic-level storytelling. Any long time fan of OOTS would burst out laughing at that. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1535 "2009-06-06T18:33:19Z")
It just occurred to me that Xykon cast a paralysis spell on [del]O-Chul[/del] Mr. Stiffly. We were wondering if the Monster in the Dark would intercede to protect O-Chul? Intercede, that is, without showing himself? I think I might have figured out how that works… ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1536 "2009-06-06T18:59:47Z")
I’ve been missing the old, canny, working-within-own-limitations V for a while now. That’s the kind of smart move that a wizard should make, and I’m very amused to see the return of “Explosive Runes” as a plot device, not just a running gag. However, we are all assuming that it _was_ Explosive Runes\*; we don’t know that for sure. I don’t think that will both kill Xykon and destroy the phylactery- as mentioned above, Xykon’s “Protection from Plot” will prevent it. But dropping the phylactery in the Snarl easily might eliminate the phylactery, and that would be a pretty substantial victory in itself. Also, O-Chul’s a badass, as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1537 "2009-06-06T20:02:46Z")
Rich is a competent storyteller. It is difficult to assume that he would use any _other_ spell in such a way unless that spell had been previously identified for the reader. In other words, he wouldn’t use a payoff without a setup. No _other_ spell has been set up, so it is the 99% most probable answer. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1538 "2009-06-06T20:14:09Z")
I agree- I’d bet the farm that it is “Explosive Runes”. But I’m just noting that we haven’t been explicitly shown in any way that it is, and V has (I’m not digging for a cite right now, because I’m on a laptop in a cafe) written something about “Explosive Runes” on something, allowed someone to read it, and then admitting that she was out of 3rd level spells for the day, or something to that effect. Which would actually be pretty awesome; if Xykon panicked and allowed the phylactery to fall on the strength of V’s bluff. We do see V casting something on the phylactery in the first panel, though, so I assume that this isn’t the case. I agree that it’s unlikely in the extreme, I’m just noting that nothing’s been made explicit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1539 "2009-06-06T20:25:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, O-Chul’s a badass, as usual. No, he’s a goodass. Paladin, remember? And in answer to **Finagle** ’s questions, even if it was Redcloak that built the tower, destroying a holy symbol does not end any spells cast using it. And the object referenced in the second question has been seen after Roy blasted Xykon. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1540 "2009-06-06T20:55:01Z")
I just realized something – we don’t see V again after Xykon cast’s Mass Hold Person. Perhaps he made his save? I successfully pulled off something like that many years ago when in a dungeon crawl. A caster had a Wand of Paralyzation and had zapped a few party members. He took a shot at me and I made my save, but I told the DM I was freezing in place anyway. When the caster walked past me he got the backstabbing of his life. Or death, as the case turned out to be. Wonder if V might be pulling something similar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=76) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=78)