# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1621 "2009-06-09T16:44:36Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Cloister protects against the scrying of any living thing in its area. [Close.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) Cloister doesn’t _just_ target an area of land, it also targets each and every living creature therein. But it blocks all teleportation, communication, or divination magic from _breaching_ that area (and living creatures therein). However, the conclusion is the same, since Cloister specifically allows casting them within the area or within the area targeting outside the area, so Xykon could cast divinations for the phylactery with abandon. Or, actually, Redcloak could. There’s no way that Xykon would’ve picked a divination spell for one of his few spells known as a sorcerer. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1622 "2009-06-09T16:54:03Z")
It’s fairly clear that Xykon _doesn’t_ have any divination, because he bought that TeeVo scrying device. Cloister also protects for a time all living creatures that _leave_ the area, which is more what I’m getting at. If Xykon regenerates out in the oceanic deeps, Redcloak won’t be able to track him until Cloister’s effect wears off. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1623 "2009-06-09T16:56:44Z")
Xylon does have a crystal ball that Team Evil has used for scrying before, though. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1624 "2009-06-09T17:04:22Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > [Close.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) Cloister doesn’t _just_ target an area of land, it also targets each and every living creature therein. Ahem. If Cloister blocks divinations from picking up on _living_ creatures that were in the Cloistered area when it was cast, you could scry Xykon out as soon as he leaves the Cloistered area. Undead are creatures, but not **living** creatures. Think RB could pass that one up? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1625 "2009-06-09T17:17:09Z")
Ahem. “It basically blocked all divination, communication, and transportation magic from breaching an area up to several miles wide.” “Teleportation, scrying, plane shifting, dimension doors, locating creatures, sending, ethereal jaunts, you name it, it blocked it.” Nothing in there blocks _only_ living creatures. What epic spellcaster would invent a block-scrying spell that freely allows your enemies to scry out your floorplans even if they can’t pick up what creatures you’ve stocked in your obligatory dungeon? The spell is said to target an area and _living_ creatures. That means that Xykon, as an _un_living creature, does not carry the spell’s effects. If he’s within the area effected, he’s protected by Cloister blocking “all divination, communication, and transportation magic”. If he leaves the area effected, he’s no longer protected by Cloister _and can therefore be scried upon_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1626 "2009-06-09T17:21:42Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Hmm… > > Maybe they’re not attacking Girard’s Gate first, remember, Roy worded the question in ways that can easily be prophecy twisted. > > Does the Phylactery count as Xykon? If it drifts down by current past Girard’s Gate it may count. What if Xykon dies and reforms in the specified radius (but doesn’t know what he’s close to) but then flies back to Azure City and attacks the other gate later? Etc etc. > > Yes, I have a beef with this specific prophecy because Roy just botched it SO badly and it just screams “yeah, like it’s actually going to work out like Roy intended it to.” The problem here is that the Oracle doesn’t _want_ to twist the prophecy. If the Snarl breaks loose, it’s the end of everything - including the goddess who provides the Oracle with his visions. When Roy asked about which gate Xykon was headed towards, the Oracle actually tried to steer him towards asking the right question, but Roy was dead-set on getting his carefully worded (and badly flawed) question answered exactly as-is. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1627 "2009-06-09T18:02:24Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Xylon does have a crystal ball that Team Evil has used for scrying before, though. It is demonstrably not an epic crystal ball, however; it was blocked from scrying the Azure City throne room. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1628 "2009-06-09T18:07:44Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The spell is said to target an area and _living_ creatures. That means that Xykon, as an _un_living creature, does not carry the spell’s effects. If the interpretation of the spell is that literal, it would also exclude a great many other creatures — golems, for instance. If I had to guess I’d say Cloister is likely to have few loopholes rather than many. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1629 "2009-06-09T21:34:54Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > If the interpretation of the spell is that literal, it would also exclude a great many other creatures — golems, for instance. If I had to guess I’d say Cloister is likely to have few loopholes rather than many. The game rules _are_ that literal. When they use the term “living creature” they intend to exclude constructs and undead. Remember, this loophole only affects nonliving creature that leave the area of the Cloister. Xykon is safe, so long as he remains in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1630 "2009-06-09T23:04:53Z")
Yes, so long as we accept Celia’s description of the spell as accurate and complete. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1631 "2009-06-10T00:31:51Z")
Another kickass strip in a series of nonstop awesome. I was a bit irked that the phylactery missed the rift, 'cause I _really_ wanted O-Chul and V to have accomplished something major, but this is a pretty good development too. It was worth it just to see Xykon’s reactions, from his pain-filled expression in the first panel when that delcious blast smacked him upside the head to his horrified “No no no no…” to his typically cocky “YES!” and finally that expression in the second to last panel – the one Rich has used about three times in total, when Xykon is utterly gobsmacked, which _never_ fails to crack me up. Of course the three alternate destinations for the phylactery were hilarious. There were _no_ good options for Xykon in any of 'em. I wonder if it’s possible that the phylactery was at all damaged, or at least its structural integrity weakened, by the various attacks on it – the cell bar, explosive runes, and fall from a great height? Or is it all or nothing when it comes to damaging items in D&D? But the phylactery is distant in my interest in the strip; I care about the characters and emotions most of all. So 'twas the final panel I loved the best, because it scares the shit out of me. That is what you call one _seriously_ infuriated skull! I don’t remember ever seeing Xykon so ready to blow his top in such a deadly, frightening way. Unless it was: …when he discovered he could no longer taste food back in SOD? I love how Rich emphasizes the emotion of the moment by allowing that final panel to focus on Xykon’s slow burn of hatred. Boy, sure hope Vaarsuvius and O-Chul have managed to get themselves out of the Hold Person spell, because death may be too kindly to describe what Xykon’s gonna do to 'em for causing him such a personal pain and discomfort. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1632 "2009-06-10T01:21:41Z")
> [@choie](#): > > …when he discovered he could no longer taste food back in SOD? Nitpicky _Start Of Darkness_ spoiler: Coffee, not food. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1633 "2009-06-10T01:34:53Z")
Oh lord, you’re right! How could I forget that very funny riff on that particular item? Thanks, **Hal Briston**. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1634 "2009-06-10T02:40:23Z")
If I might opine, it looks (LOOKS, strictly based on position and current lines. I know it doesn’t mean anything) as if it might be headed out to sea. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1635 "2009-06-10T04:00:24Z")
[Surprise!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1636 "2009-06-10T04:06:39Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > [Surprise!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html) Yeah, there’s no way that’s a Tarrasque in there. My own pet theory is the CitD is a god with amnesia. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1637 "2009-06-10T04:10:26Z")
Holy … I mean … HUH? [spoiler]Seriously: that was bizarre to say the least! A little disappointing, in that I hate to see Vaarsuvius so unable to do anything where O-Chul is, but of course, O-Chul is way stronger than V in several different ways (plus he got the potions of healing). Plus I think it’s almost anticlimactic for O-Chul not to die after all the setup of martyrdom we’ve gotten. But hey, if O-Chul had to live in order to get my fave V outta there, long live O-Chul! It was a great strip and utterly unexpected, like the title. I was creeped out by Xykon being ready to Meteor Swarm the helpless duo in their mouths – talk about gangsta. Xykon getting his “kills” taken away from him just sets things up for an even more nasty confrontation down the line. These are gonna be two enemies Xykon remembers, that’s for sure! Dying to find out where the duo will turn up. Hopefully _well_ out of Xykon’s range.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1638 "2009-06-10T04:12:26Z")
The whole point of this book was getting the order back together, so V will probably end up with the rest of the team just as Roy’s resurrection is completed. Putting O-Chul there as well sets him up to meet with Hinjo, which could definitely be a crowning moment of heartwarming. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1639 "2009-06-10T04:34:47Z")
Man, that makes me like, 0 for 50 bajillion. I am not a Rich Burlew mind reader. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1640 "2009-06-10T04:46:48Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Yeah, there’s no way that’s a Tarrasque in there. > > My own pet theory is the CitD is a god with amnesia. Hey! That’s MY pet theory! (Seriously - I’ve mentioned it several times this thread. To be precise, I’m pretty sure he’s Zeus.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=83)