# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1661 "2009-06-10T11:06:39Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [Cronus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus), not [Chronos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronos). Two different entities. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1662 "2009-06-10T13:16:41Z")
Dang it! There goes my giant firebreathing space hamster hypothesis. Unless… Oh course! It must be a half-djinn, half-giant firebreathing space hamster. That makes much more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1663 "2009-06-10T13:27:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You know what else was big, and ate a lot of things? The Oracle’s mama? > [@Miller](#): > > The Snarl. Drat. Also: w00t, MitD! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1664 "2009-06-10T15:03:19Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Well I am changing my guess about the CITD to Abomination. I suspect that O-Chul would beg to differ. He, after all, pronounced CitD “A good man.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1665 "2009-06-10T15:15:37Z")
psst. [Abomination](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1666 "2009-06-10T15:19:57Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Who says that the MITD is responsible for V & O vanishing? We know that he can’t make things happen by [hoping really hard](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html). 'Zactly. Just because they vanished when the MitD wanted them to escape doesn’t mean the MitD caused them to escape. What’s that term scientists use? “Corrolation is not causation.” ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1667 "2009-06-10T15:22:34Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > psst. [Abomination](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm) Note that the linked page mentions that abominations are immune to charms and other mind-affecting spells. Since Xykon has charmed the CitD (in Start of Darkness), that rules out the theory that he’s an abomination. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1668 "2009-06-10T15:23:30Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > 'Zactly. Just because they vanished when the MitD wanted them to escape doesn’t mean the MitD caused them to escape. What’s that term scientists use? “Corrolation is not causation.” Fortunately, we are dealing with a work of fiction, which follows \*dramatic \*logic, rather than scientific. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1669 "2009-06-10T15:39:25Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > psst. [Abomination](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm) Huh. Learn something new every day, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1670 "2009-06-10T15:52:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Fortunately, we are dealing with a work of fiction, which follows \*dramatic \*logic, rather than scientific. Yeah, but it could be a fake-out on Rich’s part. The Monster wants them gone, they disappear, people start speculating- and it turns out it was something totally diferent that vanished them. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1671 "2009-06-10T15:56:57Z")
Hmm… the MiTD is roughly human-sized, can see out of the dark, and has huge strength. I remember that in one of the Monster Manuals, maybe the Fiend Folio, there was a race of dwarves which fit the bill. Were they called ‘Wind Throwers’? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1672 "2009-06-10T15:57:35Z")
Maybe, but Rich takes the emotional componant of his story very seriously. Why all the build-up regarding the Creature’s free will without a payoff? Burlew is a lot like late-period Pratchett - the comedy is only on the surface; the stories themsleves are dead serious. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1673 "2009-06-10T15:58:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Fortunately, we are dealing with a work of fiction, which follows \*dramatic \*logic, rather than scientific. Precisely. This event was a) foreshadowed in #543, b) possibly reinforced in “Start of Darkness,” c) reinforced by the MiTD’s glowing eyes, d) reinforced by having all the demon roaches turn to look at him, and e) excluded from being very many other possibilities due to Cloister. It is not a certainty, but the dramatic odds are in favor … just as with the “guess what spell I cast?” bit. People were swearing up and down that it couldn’t possibly be Explosive Runes, that we didn’t know for 100% sure. But it was. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1674 "2009-06-10T15:58:37Z")
Notice the MitD’s eyes when he says the word “ESCAPE!” – they’re glowy.\* That’s pretty much Rich’s shorthand for “magical doin’s.” I think that older strip is a good indication that the monster is _used_ to things happening sort of as a side effect from its wishes. **Fish** , that’s a great obsevation that it might be enabling O-Chul’s wishes rather than merely wishing on its own. Which would explain why V was “escaped” too; the monster certainly doesn’t care about the elf leaving or not (at least he doesn’t mention V at all in its speech, unless I’m mistaken). Just noticed the funny panel as O-Chul decides to carry V over to the MitD. I know O-Chul is strong and all, but is he really carrying a paralyzed V with one hand … by V’s _head_, no less? Pretty impressive. - ETA: _shakes fist at **Fish** _ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1675 "2009-06-10T16:06:31Z")
Never mind. Wind Throwers are in Dragon 101 and are evil dwarves. Not what I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1676 "2009-06-10T16:09:19Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Just noticed the funny panel as O-Chul decides to carry V over to the MitD. I know O-Chul is strong and all, but is he really carrying a paralyzed V with one hand … by V’s _head_, no less? Pretty impressive. Elves are pretty light, and O-Chul is amped. No problem for a paladin full of resolve. I wonder who is going to catch the brunt of Xykon’s wrath now that his kills have escaped? Pity the goblin who walks into the room now. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1677 "2009-06-10T16:10:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Can’t be the Snarl. Rich has said, according to many folks at his forums, that the MitD is something in the D&D universe – not something he made up, like the Snarl. Sigh. No, he never said that it’s something in the D&D universe. He did say that it’s not something he made up, and that people would recognize it when they saw it. Furthermore, Rich is quite aware that many of his readers follow D&D only superficially, or not at all: It’s not something from an obscure rulebook, or a combination of obscure rulebooks, because if that were the case, most folks wouldn’t recognize it. If it’s something from D&D at all, it would probably be something from one of the core rulebooks, but folks have already been over those with a fine-toothed comb and found nothing that matched, even before this latest tour de force. Therefore, it is probably _not_ something from D&D, but from some other work of literature or art. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1678 "2009-06-10T16:14:02Z")
The very best argument against the MiTD being a “baby Snarl” or a “Snarlspawn” is as follows: Redcloak has _seen_ the MiTD; he therefore knows what it is, or what it looks like. … and yet he doesn’t _use_ the MiTD to help probe the Snarl gate. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1679 "2009-06-10T16:31:21Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Just noticed the funny panel as O-Chul decides to carry V over to the MitD. I know O-Chul is strong and all, but is he really carrying a paralyzed V with one hand … by V’s _head_, no less? Pretty impressive. [Haley holding V by the ankles](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0116.html); V is apparently quite light. Also the one-handed carry is traditionally used to haul Durkon along – and he’s a dwarf, in full plate. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1680 "2009-06-10T16:50:28Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > The very best argument against the MiTD being a “baby Snarl” or a “Snarlspawn” is as follows: > > Redcloak has _seen_ the MiTD; he therefore knows what it is, or what it looks like. > > … and yet he doesn’t _use_ the MiTD to help probe the Snarl gate. But has Redcloak ever seen the Snarl? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=83) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=85)