# Order of the Stick General Discussion Thread (Open Spoilers and Speculation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096 "2009-02-02T07:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1761 "2009-06-15T19:41:52Z")
> [@](#): > > I absolutely love the fact that he doesn’t lie, either. He did make the decision to destroy the gem when it was still the best thing to do, and Miko did use his blade to do it when it was the stupid thing to do. > > So he misleads, but doesn’t lie, for a “good” cause. > Paladins are weird . Partly it’s the whole “not technically lying” thing, but there’s more to it than that. O-Chul did in fact make the decision to destroy the Gate, and honestly attempted to do so, which means that he bears responsibility for its destruction. In fact, even if it hadn’t ended up destroyed, he would probably still take responsibility for what would have happened if it were. Being a paladin means taking responsibility for your decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Thalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Thalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thalion)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1762 "2009-06-15T21:43:28Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > I find it significant that he couldn’t make O-Chul escape _until O-Chul wanted to escape._ That sounds like wish-granting ability to me. I think that **Fish** has a good point here. The CitD didn’t just get O-Chul and V out of the City - he sent them directly to Hinjo (in fact, falling on top of Hinjo but not on Lien). That is the exact spot O-Chul would want to go. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1763 "2009-06-15T21:56:02Z")
Now that Elan and Vaarsuvius are back with the paladins, it’ll be interesting to see if there’s any fall out from that whole Kubota affair. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1764 "2009-06-15T21:57:31Z")
> [@Thalion](#): > > I think that **Fish** has a good point here. The CitD didn’t just get O-Chul and V out of the City - he sent them directly to Hinjo (in fact, falling on top of Hinjo but not on Lien). That is the exact spot O-Chul would want to go. Bear in mind that O-Chul had no idea what continent Hinjo was even on. It wasn’t just the GitD reading his mind and teleporting him - I think he literally answered his prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1765 "2009-06-15T22:00:29Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Plus, O-Chul’s backhanded compliment, his being all, “oh yeah, the elf helped me,” kinda got on my pecs. Both O-Chul and Vaarsuvius were vital to the “let’s get the phylactery out of Xykon’s bony hands” plot, V didn’t just give an assist. Sheesh! An odd bit of phrasing there. I’d guess that he’s still a little leery of V over the way (s)he was when (s)he first appeared in the tower. As for his “perfection,” I have a feeling that Rich is edging towards going overboard in trying to establish the contrast between O-Chul and Miko (in order to emphasize how the latter did NOT personify the Sapphire Guard). But I didn’t really get the feeling he was over that edge yet. Ah, Elan, your genre savviness was missed… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1766 "2009-06-15T22:09:42Z")
Back in [# 543](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html) the CitD hoped “really really hard” for O-Chul to escape and nothing happened. Then, after O-Chul actually, explicitly wishes to escape, the CitD says “ESCAPE” - and \* POP \* - they not only escape, but go right where O-Chul would want. I do think the signs point to it being some sort of Wish granting ability. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1767 "2009-06-15T22:11:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Partly it’s the whole “not technically lying” thing, but there’s more to it than that. O-Chul did in fact make the decision to destroy the Gate, and honestly attempted to do so, which means that he bears responsibility for its destruction. In fact, even if it hadn’t ended up destroyed, he would probably still take responsibility for what would have happened if it were. Being a paladin means taking responsibility for your decisions. What responsibility ? He didn’t say word one to Miko, and she certainly didn’t take her cues from his posture or what he attempted to do. Blowing up the gate is all on her delusion, which by that point only had a tenuous, circumstantial link with reality. O-Chul himself would most probably have chosen a different course of action once he was made aware of the existence of the Ghost Martyrs, and their very real ability to kick Xykon’s ass to the Moon and back. However, I don’t doubt that he would indeed have owned up to wanting to destroy the gate at one point, had the gate survived… and had he deemed it important that people knew about his lack of responsibility in this state of affairs. As is, it seems to me he simply made the decision that people not knowing about the exact circumstances of the gate’s destruction bore less weight than “speaking ill of the dead”, or maybe that speaking ill of the dead won’t change reality, so he might as well not. Debatable, but hey, it’s his decision. If he keeps the lie going even when his own best interest (or that of his own cause) is in question, I’ll call him a noble, selfless guy ;). ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1768 "2009-06-15T22:14:04Z")
Er… I’m having trouble remembering which paladin was who. A quick refresher course, please? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1769 "2009-06-15T22:58:12Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > [sub] yay! O’chul survived it all:)[/sub] DON’T _SAY_ that! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1770 "2009-06-15T23:27:46Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Er… I’m having trouble remembering which paladin was who. A quick refresher course, please? Miko - Crazy bitch who murdered the lord of Azure City, lost her paladin status, then destroyed the gate and created the rift. Got bisected by the ensuing explosion and died. O-Chul - Badass paladin who tried to destroy the gate when victory seemed impossible, but was paralyzed by Xykon before he could do it. Subsequent events revealed that destroying the gate would have been a bad idea, but he didn’t know it at the time. Survived the explosion, got captured by Xykon, and spent the last few months being tortured for their entertainment until escaping in the last three strips. Hinjo - Leader of the Sapphire Guard, current ruler-in-exile of Azure City after Miko murdered his dad. Soon - Founder of the Sapphire Guard, and part of the adventuring party that first discovered and contained the rifts in the Snarl’s prison. Died a long time ago, but didn’t let that stand in the way of kicking lich ass, until Miko’s untimely destruction of the gate severed his connection to the material world. Lien - Hinjo’s second in command, rocking the water-themed paladin concept: her mount is a celestial shark. Currently filling Roy’s role of being exasperated by Elan. Thanh - Still back in Azure City, took over running the resistance movement when Haley left. I miss any? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1771 "2009-06-16T00:24:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hinjo - Leader of the Sapphire Guard, current ruler-in-exile of Azure City after Miko murdered his dad. His uncle, actually. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1772 "2009-06-16T00:30:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I miss any? There aren’t all that many left to miss … ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1773 "2009-06-16T00:30:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Currently filling Roy’s role of being exasperated by Elan. Heh. Hehe. Hehehehe. So true. It’s a dirty job but someone’s gotta do it 😛 > [@](#): > > I miss any? Yeah, Old Dude With The Cat. No, I can’t remember his name (I’m very PC-ish that way), and he technically wasn’t a paladin. Still, key player in the whole paladin mess. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1774 "2009-06-16T00:35:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Miko - Crazy bitch who murdered the lord of Azure City, lost her paladin status, then destroyed the gate and created the rift. Got bisected by the ensuing explosion and died. Long-haired woman. > [@](#): > > O-Chul - Badass paladin who tried to destroy the gate when victory seemed impossible, but was paralyzed by Xykon before he could do it. Subsequent events revealed that destroying the gate would have been a bad idea, but he didn’t know it at the time. Survived the explosion, got captured by Xykon, and spent the last few months being tortured for their entertainment until escaping in the last three strips. Bald guy currently in skivvies. > [@](#): > > Hinjo - Leader of the Sapphire Guard, current ruler-in-exile of Azure City after Miko murdered his dad. Goatee guy. > [@](#): > > Soon - Founder of the Sapphire Guard, and part of the adventuring party that first discovered and contained the rifts in the Snarl’s prison. Died a long time ago, but didn’t let that stand in the way of kicking lich ass, until Miko’s untimely destruction of the gate severed his connection to the material world. Fu Manchu moustache guy. > [@](#): > > Lien - Hinjo’s second in command, rocking the water-themed paladin concept: her mount is a celestial shark. Currently filling Roy’s role of being exasperated by Elan. Short-haired woman. > [@](#): > > Thanh - Still back in Azure City, took over running the resistance movement when Haley left. Bushy moustache guy. > [@Kobal2](#): > > Yeah, Old Dude With The Cat. No, I can’t remember his name (I’m very PC-ish that way), and he technically wasn’t a paladin. Still, key player in the whole paladin mess. Shojo. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1775 "2009-06-16T00:35:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, Old Dude With The Cat. No, I can’t remember his name (I’m very PC-ish that way), and he technically wasn’t a paladin. Still, key player in the whole paladin mess. Mr. Scruffy, of course. Oh, you were asking about the Old Guy? 😛 Thanks, **Miller**. ETA: And thanks **Bosstone**. That’s even more helpful for me. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1776 "2009-06-16T02:21:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I miss any? Jiaya and Yunji. They were only in two strips and those were only in a book. But they made quite an impression. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1777 "2009-06-16T03:30:17Z")
> [@](#): > > What responsibility ? He didn’t say word one to Miko, and she certainly didn’t take her cues from his posture or what he attempted to do. Blowing up the gate is all on her delusion, which by that point only had a tenuous, circumstantial link with reality. O-Chul himself would most probably have chosen a different course of action once he was made aware of the existence of the Ghost Martyrs, and their very real ability to kick Xykon’s ass to the Moon and back. He made a decision, and he accepts the consequence of that decision. The fact that the one didn’t follow directly from the other is irrelevant to him. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1778 "2009-06-16T04:12:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I miss any? Also, while not paladins, there’s Daigo, nobleman and former Azure City infantry soldier, and his wife Kazumi. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1779 "2009-06-16T04:36:22Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Also, while not paladins, there’s Daigo, nobleman and former Azure City infantry soldier, and his wife Kazumi. Kazumi’s not exactly chopped liver herself. She’s a “goddamn baby-making, life-taking [MACHINE](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0587.html).” ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096/1780 "2009-06-16T05:40:43Z")
what are the details of the Paladin non-interference-with-other-gates Oath? I had assumed big O was precluded from ever joining the party, because they are going on the the other gates, but Did the ever mention if the destruction of the gate will nullify the oath? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-general-discussion-thread-open-spoilers-and-speculation/484096.md?page=90)