# Ordering a factory new Boeing F/A-18. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109 "2014-08-21T17:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/1 "2014-08-21T17:34:59Z")
Assuming I had the financial resources for a brand new Boeing F/A-18, could I legally order one from Boeing? I wouldn’t expect it to have the weapons or any classified systems, just the aircraft would be fine. I know a older model military jets are in private hands, but I’ve never heard of some eccentric billionaire ordering a new front line fighter from the factory. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/2 "2014-08-21T17:57:48Z")
Probably not, on the same principle as not being able to buy a full-military version of the HMMV, just the one they made for commercial sale (and let us not speak of the H2 or H3, please). ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/3 "2014-08-21T18:30:29Z")
For a newer model like the F/A-18, you’d almost certainly have to strip most of the electronics (including avionics) as many probably involve classified technology. I wouldn’t want to hazard a guess about how poorly modern military jets fly without those bits. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/4 "2014-08-21T18:40:18Z")
The design rights, and tooling, are either owned or controlled by the government, so you’d need the Secretary of Defense at the very least to approve the deal. Then, there’s ITAR, the International Trafficking in Arms Regulations, which are broad enough to cover even the basic airplane without weapons. You might need both Defense and Commerce approval for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/5 "2014-08-21T18:48:02Z")
You’ll just have to settle for a good lease-return model instead of a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/6 "2014-08-21T18:51:54Z")
What would be the closest equivalent you could buy from a foreign government, then? edited to add: Need answer fast. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/7 "2014-08-21T18:53:19Z")
Easiest: There are a number of former Soviet-bloc L-29’s in private hands now. They’re advanced trainers, not fighters, but the performance is there. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/8 "2014-08-21T19:59:04Z")
Is there any reason you couldn’t buy an older US-made fighter, like say… an F4 Phantom or a F8 Crusader, assuming all the weapons mountings and guns were removed/disabled? A trainer is … lame. If I was richer than Croesus and wanted a milsurp fighter, I’d go for something cool, even if it was older. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/9 "2014-08-21T20:58:30Z")
I’ve seen Migs and F-86, F-100 in private hands at air shows as well as many WW2 vintage aircraft. They all have weapons removed. But, it appears only the current military pilots get to fly the really fun and fast stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/10 "2014-08-21T21:31:54Z")
You don’t want a used F-104. If the engine fails, they have the glide characteristics of a brick. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/11 "2014-08-21T21:57:54Z")
Will a [MiG-29](http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110206/NEWS01/702069910) do? IIRC, it’s got performance on par with an early F/A-18. Not sure if Ukraine is still selling them, especially now. Though Russia is [moving ahead with the Su-30 and Su-35](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/russias-new-air-force-is-a-mystery-af28abb0be7d) while they wait for the T-50 to be more than vaporware, I don’t know if they’ll be selling off their old Su-27s. Or if a non nation state would be allowed to bid on them. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/12 "2014-08-21T22:06:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Easiest: There are a number of former Soviet-bloc L-29’s in private hands now. They’re advanced trainers, not fighters, but the performance is there. Pah, “performance”, they aren’t even supersonic, I may as well take my car. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/13 "2014-08-21T23:02:26Z")
Don’t forget - they’re not FAA certified. You might or might not have trouble getting an “experimental” ticket for it. Unless you just want to look at it in the hangar. Don’t forget to hire a maintenance crew. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/14 "2014-08-21T23:27:55Z")
Larry Ellison [owns a Mig-29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Ellison) but the Feds will not let him import it into the States. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/15 "2014-08-22T00:42:46Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > You don’t want a used F-104. If the engine fails, they have the glide characteristics of a brick. more like a lawn dart. I would imagine they have problems with them in Canada because they sound like a moose on [startup](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cayblOY0h00). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/16 "2014-08-22T02:10:03Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Will a [MiG-29](http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110206/NEWS01/702069910) do? IIRC, it’s got performance on par with an early F/A-18. That article got one of its facts wrong. The Russians did not originally give the name Fulcrum to the MiG-29. Fulcrum was a NATO designation for the plane (all Soviet planes had a NATO [reporting name](http://www.ipms-gateway.com/articles/NATOSovietNames.htm)). Many of the NATO names were pretty bad. Who’d want to fly a Fishbed or a Flashlight or a Frogfoot? But apparently Soviet pilots liked the name Fulcrum and adopted it as an unofficial nickname for their plane. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/17 "2014-08-22T02:28:51Z")
The New Zealand government had a lot of trouble selling off their old A4K Skyhawks because the sale required US Defence approval. They eventually went to a US company, but it took over 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/18 "2014-08-22T03:49:37Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Larry Ellison [owns a Mig-29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Ellison) but the Feds will not let him import it into the States. That Paul Allen has one that flies regularly must really burn Larry up. Mobile, so can’t find the link now, but one of the handful of companies that refurbish and sell warbirds to rich guys had an ex-Blue Angels F-18 for sale a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/19 "2014-08-22T04:04:19Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Mobile, so can’t find the link now, but one of the handful of companies that refurbish and sell warbirds to rich guys had an ex-Blue Angels F-18 for sale a couple of years ago. [I found this](http://xpda.com/f18ebay/). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109/20 "2014-08-22T13:24:32Z")
From\*\* Johnny’s\*\* cite above… - “It has been acquired legitimately,” said Landa, who said he was visited by the FBI on Tuesday, a day after he posted the jet on the popular Internet auction site. \* And this… - Landa is also selling a new aircraft “that climbs straight up” for $10 million.\* Now, that totally has me curious. That must have some awesome thrust. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-factory-new-boeing-f-a-18/696109.md?page=2)