# Ordering a well-done steak: Unsophisticated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522 "2005-10-23T14:48:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/241 "2005-10-27T18:56:30Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Grr… that steak house is either importing Kobe illegally from japan or they are serving Wagyu and mislabelling it as Kobe. Not only that, but they seem to give an active impression that what you are getting is the real deal (I read a review that waxed lyrically about how it was real kobe and which read like a press copy). Given that if it really _was_ being imported from japan a) every foodie steak hunter in America would know about it and b) the USDA would shut it down, I find it highly doubtful that they are the _only_ steakhouse in the entire country who manages to get real Kobe. > > Sorry, but it’s a particular pet peeve of mine. Wagyu is the breed of cattle. Kobe is the region of Japan from which Kobe beef is produced. Wagyu cattle grown and raised in the US cannot be classified as Kobe beef. They claim direct import from Japan. Why would that be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/242 "2005-10-27T19:16:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > For you people in Seattle, I highly recommend Daniel’s Broiler in Bellevue, WA for steak. It’s some of the best steak ever. If you want **THE BEST STEAK EVER** , trek on down here to Austin and visit [Flemings](http://www.flemingssteakhouse.com/). The next day, you can try out “Sullivan’s”, and then scoot on over to “Cool River”. On your way out of town, try out “Dan McKluskey’s” and then maybe, “Saltgrass Steakhouse”. There is also the “Texas Land and Cattle Co.”. Oh and we also have an OUtback or two here. If it was still open, I’d reccomend the “Convict Hill Steakhouse”, but, alas, urban creep killed that one. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/243 "2005-10-27T19:23:44Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > They claim direct import from Japan. Why would that be illegal? Since September, import of beef from Japan has been banned. This was in retaliation for Japan banning import of beef from the U.S. Japan banned beef because of Mad Cow fears. [Senate votes to ban Japan beef imports](http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/12701137.htm) > [@AP Wire](#): > > Japan’s food safety panel issued a draft report last week saying U.S. cows faced higher risk of exposure to mad cow disease than Japanese cows because of insufficient feed controls in the 1980s and 1990s, according to Kyodo News agency. > > Ground-up cattle remains - leftovers from slaughtering operations - were used as protein in cattle feed until 1997, when a mad cow outbreak in Britain prompted the U.S. to ban the feed industry from using cattle remains in cattle feed. > > The U.S. bans beef from all countries with confirmed cases of mad cow disease, including Japan and its beef from Kobe, a region where cattle are pampered with sake massages and diets including beer. The exception is Canada, which resumed limited beef shipments in 2003 and live cattle shipments earlier this year. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/244 "2005-10-27T19:31:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Kobe, a region where cattle are pampered with sake massages and diets including beer. I’m adding this to my list of places, and things I want to be when I get reincarnated. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/245 "2005-10-27T19:41:15Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Anyway in IMHO here is how the different steak houses rate: > Lowest to highest > level 1 Outhouse etc > Level 2 Sizzler etc > Level 3 Black Angus etc > Level 4 Keg etc > Level 5 Ruth’s Chris etc > Level 6 Mortons, Pacific Dining Car, Ringside In that case, I’ll have to propose a Level 0 for Ponderosa and Bonanza and Duffs Steakhouse (if they still exist), which on our family meagre budget, was a special night out, especially once they got their salad bars and “Tuesdays, kids eat free!” deals. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/246 "2005-10-27T20:03:09Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Anyway in IMHO here is how the different steak houses rate: > Lowest to highest > level 1 Outhouse etc > Level 2 Sizzler etc I don’t particularly like Outback as an objective measure, but you’re insane :). Sizzler’s meat is crap and definitely below even Outback’s meager quality. I’ll eat at either by the way ( and I like my steaks medium to medium-rare ). I’m tolerant of mediocre meat, as all meat has redeeming values and if I’m in the right mood I’ll grab a Sizzler salad bar/steak combo. I just don’t kid myself that it is a _good_ steak, any more than that all-you-can-eat-shrimp is good shrimp. It just satisfies a certain urge. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/247 "2005-10-27T20:10:23Z")
Sizzler \> Outback? You must be insane, because last I checked, Sizzler was in the negatives. (I don’t know, though, because last time I went to Outback, I had a wunnerful ribeye. But I can’t cook my own steaks to save my life, so feel free to criticize my food tastes as you see fit.) ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/248 "2005-10-27T20:56:32Z")
The reason I listed Sizzler \> Outback is because Outback used mass quanties of meat tenderizer. Sizzler in my experience Sizzler does not do this. How do you know if your steak has been drenched in tenderizer? Meat tenderizer will turn the top most part of the steak to mush. Take a fork and scrape the top of the steak. If you get a pile of grey mush on your fork, it was tenderized. There is also a taste change, but mush is much easier to explain over the net. But as I said before YYMV. Your list may well vary. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/249 "2005-10-27T21:03:52Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Since September, import of beef from Japan has been banned. This was in retaliation for Japan banning import of beef from the U.S. Japan banned beef because of Mad Cow fears. > > [Senate votes to ban Japan beef imports](http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/12701137.htm) I just phoned them, and they are now importing “Kobe” style beef from Australia due to this ruling. So I agree they should no longer call it Kobe beef, though the Beef was imported from Japan when I asked a couple of months ago (being myself very dubious that it would be real Kobe). ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/250 "2005-10-27T21:23:47Z")
Could it perhaps have been imported from Japan to Australia, and then from Australia to America? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/251 "2005-10-27T21:26:40Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > I just phoned them, and they are now importing “Kobe” style beef from Australia due to this ruling. So I agree they should no longer call it Kobe beef, though the Beef was imported from Japan when I asked a couple of months ago (being myself very dubious that it would be real Kobe). I don’t think they (the restaurant) were entire truthful (deliberately or due to ignorance of the responder) a few months back. There was something in the original linked article to make me believe that the ban dated back further than this year. I was [right](http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/fsheet_faq_notice/faq_ahjapanbeef.html) > [@](#): > > Q. How long has the United States prohibited the importation of beef products from Japan? > A. USDA’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) has prohibited the importation of ruminants and most ruminant products from Japan since September 10, 2001, when APHIS added Japan to its list of regions where BSE exists. That action was prompted by the confi rmation of BSE in a native-born animal in Japan. As of July 2005, Japan had reported a total of 20 cases of BSE, including the initial case in September 2001 and two cases that are currently under further investigation. At the time of the ban, Japan exported primarily fresh/chilled boneless cuts of beef. The recent vote, if I’m reading between the lines correctly, is more because restrictions on the importation of Japanese beef may soon have been lifted, and because Japan restricts imports of US beef, it was a tit-for-tat. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/252 "2005-10-27T21:28:53Z")
> [@chaoticbear](#): > > Could it perhaps have been imported from Japan to Australia, and then from Australia to America? Unlikely, without going into deep research for a cite, I’m 98.6215% certain that all food items must be traced to their point of origin for legal importation. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/253 "2005-10-27T22:04:13Z")
This is a neat thread. Viva la Dope! ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/254 "2005-10-27T23:09:28Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Unlikely, without going into deep research for a cite, I’m 98.6215% certain that all food items must be traced to their point of origin for legal importation. They said the Kobe came from a farm in Australia, and some web searching shows Australia does produce “Kobe” style beef from Kobe cattle. ---
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/255 "2005-10-27T23:21:23Z")
Cool! Some names I recognize! Hey, **UncleRojelio** , I’m willing to put Houston’s Flemings, Saltgrass, and Texas Land and Cattle Co. up against Austin. My, they cook a good well done steak! I am also fond of McCormick & Schmick’s, I think it’s a chain though I don’t think it’s a steakhouse per se. Anyway, I want to thank **lissener** and **Rick** because I was starting to feel annoyed at the idea of chefs that I recommend to others (my company does a lot of client dinners, and I occasionally recommend restaurants for visiting executives) serving me something “less than”, for whatever reason. Keg’s reasoning sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and frankly, I can’t imagine ordering a cut of meat 7" in each dimension (isn’t that much bigger than a baseball? Could someone really eat that in one sitting?). ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/256 "2005-10-27T23:40:23Z")
> [@KAndre](#): > > Cool! Some names I recognize! Hey, **UncleRojelio** , I’m willing to put Houston’s Flemings, Saltgrass, and Texas Land and Cattle Co. up against Austin. My, they cook a good well done steak! I am also fond of McCormick & Schmick’s, I think it’s a chain though I don’t think it’s a steakhouse per se. > Anyway, I want to thank **lissener** and **Rick** because I was starting to feel annoyed at the idea of chefs that I recommend to others (my company does a lot of client dinners, and I occasionally recommend restaurants for visiting executives) serving me something “less than”, for whatever reason. Keg’s reasoning sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and frankly, I can’t imagine ordering a cut of meat 7" in each dimension (isn’t that much bigger than a baseball? Could someone really eat that in one sitting?). In reverese order, a hardball baseball is 7" in diameter, a softball is 9" A baseball sirloin is not round, but rather kinda square (looking from the top) and from the side is shaped like a mountain and while it may not be a full 7" in that direction, it is probably 4 or 5" tall. A fair bit of meat nonetheless. For sure less meat that a big t-bone or poterhouse. I was going to make fun of you for listing McCormick & Schmick’s, as they are a seafood house, but I do see on their menu that they have 4 steaks listed. M & S is not the first name I would think of if I were think steak. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/257 "2005-10-27T23:46:12Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > They said the Kobe came from a farm in Australia, and some web searching shows Australia does produce “Kobe” style beef from Kobe cattle. for that matter, a large percentage of “Kobe” consumed in Japan comes from California. The rule in Japan is that the cow has to live at least 1 month (IIRC) in Kobe to be called Kobe. So they rasie them in California, ship them live to Kobe, and then slaughter them when enough time has lapsed. [Linkty, link, link.](http://www.zyra.org.uk/lucies.htm) > [@](#): > > “Most Kobe Beef today is bred and raised in California and Australia. For example, Harris Ranch in California is contracted with beef producers in Kobe to breed and raise their cattle in California, where land and grain is relatively inexpensive. The cattle is raised and fed under the exacting specifications for Kobe Beef. When the cattle is almost ready for slaughter, it is shipped to Kobe, Japan, where its feeding is completed, and the cattle is slaughtered.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/258 "2005-10-28T00:26:04Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > In reverese order, a hardball baseball is 7" in diameter, a softball is 9" . . . Dude, I think you got your wires crossed somewhere. My \*head \*is barely 7" in diameter. A baseball is actually less than three inches in diameter, being around 9" in _circumference_. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/259 "2005-10-28T00:32:20Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > If you want **THE BEST STEAK EVER** , trek on down here to Austin and visit [Flemings](http://www.flemingssteakhouse.com/). The next day, you can try out “Sullivan’s”, and then scoot on over to “Cool River”. On your way out of town, try out “Dan McKluskey’s” and then maybe, “Saltgrass Steakhouse”. There is also the “Texas Land and Cattle Co.”. Oh and we also have an OUtback or two here. I’ve lived in Austin and I’ve lived in New York and the true Alpha and Omega of steak is [Peter Luger’s](http://www.peterluger.com/) in Brooklyn, NY. Close second to Sparks in Manhattan on grounds of an excellent wine list and no need to tromp out to an outer borough. Everyone else is an also-ran, unless you want to start throwing Kobe/Waygu places in the mix. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522/260 "2005-10-28T03:04:18Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Dude, I think you got your wires crossed somewhere. My \*head \*is barely 7" in diameter. A baseball is actually less than three inches in diameter, being around 9" in _circumference_. S’truth. [Inside a baseball](http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=3886) Dividing that 9.25 inch circumference by pi gives 2.94 inches. A nine-inch ball would be a bit less. DD [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ordering-a-well-done-steak-unsophisticated/327522.md?page=14)