# Oregon is south of Washington! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 27, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617 "2022-11-27T04:14:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/21 "2022-11-27T16:22:35Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Also, most of the population of the state of Oregon is concentrated in an area that is more northerly than where most of the population of Canada is concentrated. Yes, Portland is due west of Montreal, which is further north than the Toronto area. Seattle, by the way, is due west of St John’s, Newfoundland. > [@Smapti](#): > > Moreover, at one point the British had settlements on the coastline south of Seattle! Vancouver WA started out as the regional HQ of the Hudson’s Bay Company. It’s about 50 years older than that other Vancouver. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/22 "2022-11-27T16:31:04Z")
There are also some stories of the dark history of Oregon’s statehood. Apparently (and this fact is not covered in schools) the state constitution included a clause that prohibited the immigration of non-whites into the new state. It had some weird effects. When the Klan recruited up a chapter in Oregon in the 1920s, the effort fizzled because the members looked around at the dearth of dark-skinned people and ended up saying, “meh”. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/23 "2022-11-27T16:37:36Z")
An anecdote: When I lived on the east coast I kept complaining that I kept moving north when I didn’t intend to. When I moved back from California I started out in Scarborough (south of Portland, ME), then to South Portland, then to Portland, then to Brunswick (30 miles north of Portland). And my job moved from Brunswick to Lewiston (another 10 miles north of Brunswick). So I decided I needed to make a move and move south for once and for all. I hit the road, I visited the whole eastern seaboard; I drove across the Great Plains to the southwest states; I made it to the Pacific Ocean at San Diego and worked my way up the coast. Now I’ve settle (temporarily) in Portland, Oregon. Portland Oregon is further north than Brunswick, Maine. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/24 "2022-11-27T16:41:25Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > When the Klan recruited up a chapter in Oregon in the 1920s, the effort fizzled because the members looked around at the dearth of dark-skinned people and ended up saying, “meh”. Well…[not exactly](https://digitalcommons.chapman.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1126&context=vocesnovae). They did fizzle a bit after initial great success, but not so much through a dearth of people to persecute (the “second Klan” was quite ecumenical in their persecutions - they hated almost everybody not white and Protestant and even some of their own), but more through infighting, corruption and incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/25 "2022-11-27T16:46:57Z")
We had the Klan in Saskatchewan in the 1920s as well. Their targets were Roman Catholics, Jews, and non-British immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/26 "2022-11-28T12:20:22Z")
Anyone know when/how that border in northeastern ND was resolved? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/27 "2022-11-28T14:07:13Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > So, US geography is perhaps not my strong suit. I grew up in Tacoma, so I never had any trouble distinguishing Oregon and Washington; but there were other states that I used to get mixed up. Vermont/New Hampshire, and Mississippi/Alabama. Both pairs are right next to each other, roughly the same size, and similar shapes. I guess I can see someone having the same confusion over Washington/Oregon. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/28 "2022-11-28T17:19:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > > > And Utah territory was hacked down: > > This is the rule rather than the exception. Nearly every state west of the Appalachians started as a much larger territory that was later divided before statehood: Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, Mississippi, Arkansas, Kansas, Dakota, Washington, Idaho, … > > Even several eastern seaboard states started larger: Massachusetts (which included Maine), New York (which included Vermont), Virginia (which included everything north of North Carolina to the Mississippi river), North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, … The NC Museum of History used to sell t-shirts with the state lines stretching all the way to the Pacific. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/29 "2022-11-28T17:53:37Z")
I don’t have a copy where I’m at now (house sitting for a friend), but my go-to will be “How the States Got Their Shapes” by Mark Stein (and there’s also a DVD series for it, which I don’t have); I’ll look it up when I can if no one responds sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/30 "2024-05-19T04:36:45Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Anyone know when/how that border in northeastern ND was resolved? I didn’t notice this question when the thread was active. I must have still been flabbergasted about a state not where it should be. The border was resolved by the Treaty of 1818. The British and the US governments agreed that the border from the Lake of the Woods to the Rocky Mountains would be along the 49th parallel north. Each country gave up a bit of land. - The British had claimed that bit south of the 49th, because it was part of the Hudson’s Bay watershed that defined Rupert’s Land. - Not shown on the map, there was a bit of land north of the 49th that the US claimed, as part of the Missouri watershed,\* which was part of the Missouri Territory. Each gave up their claims to those bits of land, to make the 49th the boundary. There was one difficulty, and that was the start point of the boundary, which was vaguely defined as being the Lake of the Woods. Unfortunately, the Lake of the Woods inconveniently insisted on not matching the outline on the maps used by the Americans and the British, which resulted in the exclave of the North-west Angle, which is a bit of US territory north of the 49th. \* which is why I once was standing on a creekbed in Saskatchewan which was part of the Missouri watershed. > **[Treaty of 1818](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_1818)** > > The Convention respecting fisheries, boundary and the restoration of slaves, also known as the London Convention, Anglo-American Convention of 1818, Convention of 1818, or simply the Treaty of 1818, is an international treaty signed in 1818 between the United States and the United Kingdom. This treaty resolved standing boundary issues between the two nations. The treaty allowed for joint occupation and settlement of the Oregon Country, known to the British and in Canadian history as the Columbia... ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/31 "2024-05-19T14:24:11Z")
I remember in an early episode of _Grey’s Anatomy_ that a character was going to go “up” to see relatives in New Hampshire. GA is in Seattle which is further north than New Hampshire. US geography is hard. (For some.) ---
**Author:** ![Jegpeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/32 "2024-05-19T22:16:16Z")
Isn’t just US Geography You are surprised how haw North Seattle is but it is further South than Munich (New York is South of Rome) - Liverpool is East of Edinburgh - The most westerly point in the British mainland is not Land’s End it is Corrachadh Mòr in Scotland - Two thirds of Africa is in the Northern Hemisphere - The whole of South America lies East of Jacksonville FL ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/33 "2024-05-19T22:52:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Even several eastern seaboard states started larger: Massachusetts (which included Maine), New York (which included Vermont), Virginia (which included everything north of North Carolina to the Mississippi river), North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Don’t forget Connecticut’s western reserve which included the northeast of Ohio. It is why there was a Western Reserve College (now merged with Case Institute of Technology to make CWRU). Later on Ohio fought the Toledo “war” (really a minor skirmish) that Ohio lost. In recompense, Michigan was given (or stolen from Wisconsin) the upper peninsula. Lots of territorial changes in those days. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/34 "2024-05-20T07:13:33Z")
Tarifa, Spain is farther south than some northern African states. ---
**Author:** ![EnglishGrey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/englishgrey/32/14111_2.png) [@EnglishGrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnglishGrey)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/35 "2024-05-20T11:03:13Z")
Which northern African states? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/36 "2024-05-20T11:26:41Z")
Los Angeles is East of Las Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/37 "2024-05-20T12:38:01Z")
Los Angeles is west of Las Vegas, but east of Reno/Carson City. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/38 "2024-05-20T14:00:59Z")
Algeria and Tunisia both extend farther north than Spain’s most southern point. ---
**Author:** ![EnglishGrey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/englishgrey/32/14111_2.png) [@EnglishGrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnglishGrey)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/39 "2024-05-20T15:27:03Z")
Ah, Tarifa is south of PART of some northern African states. That makes more sense, I took it as meaning south of the whole state. ---
**Author:** ![Jegpeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617/40 "2024-05-20T16:49:03Z")
Given the width of the Straight of Gibraltar I didn’t find that surprising at all [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-is-south-of-washington/975617.md?page=3)