# Oregon vs. Right-Wing Militias, Round 2
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [June 22, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899 "2019-06-22T18:22:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/21 "2019-06-24T23:36:16Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> So… is there a warrant out for the arrest of the senator who threatened the police yet?
>
> If not, _why the fuck not_?
My guess? Because Democrats in general are weak. Weak weak weak. She’ll be afraid of provoking their supporters and dealing with the inevitable right-wing putsch-back (sp? :p), so she’ll do as little as possible, which will ultimately embolden her opposition.
---
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/22 "2019-06-24T23:36:50Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#):
>
> Glad someone started a thread on this. I do not understand the motives of these right wingers at all.
>
> Oregon was going to pass cap and trade. The right freaked out because, from what I have read, this policy would according to them raise expenses on businesses and more generally for energy/fuel.
>
> Don’t they see there is more to it than that? Climate change is real- are they math denialists? Incapable of following the evidence that points toward climate change? Ready to take the world on a Thelma and Louise cliff drive rather than face reality? Unable to grasp that climate change will result in more of the refugees they hate, and far larger expenses than cap and trade will cause?
>
> That is kind of what it looks like to me, but I doubt those are right. Is there some deep rooted conspiracy theory at work? Is there a huge economic disparity between the two halves of the state? Lead in the water?
>
> I truly don’t understand what people are so afraid of that the Law n Order Republicans are willing to flee and threaten to shoot cops. What’s the bugaboo here?
I am not a conservative but I think it’s because many feel they are the superior, authentic, appointed by God people and everyone else is an interloper. And now they have to live in a society run by people they consider inferior, inauthentic outsiders. Climate change isn’t the issue, these same senators were threatening to walk out over bills on vaccination and gun control.
White militia groups have a lot on common with Muslim extremist groups. It’s the same mentality at root just expressed in different cultures. A group of fundamentalist extremists who think Dog is on their side are trying to protect their own status in a rapidly changing world are enraged that people they consider inauthentic inferiors are invading ‘their’ society and calling the shots.
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/23 "2019-06-24T23:41:10Z")
I hope that the Democrats have the bills all drafted up and ready to go on those other things, and force them all through as soon as a couple of the coward are rounded up and dragged into the Capitol Building.
---
### Author:  [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/24 "2019-06-24T23:44:29Z")
> [@raventhief](#):
>
> > [@Sunny\_Daze](#):
> >
> > Elected officials should be treated the some way as anyone else. If they threaten violence, or commit it, they pay the penalty.
> >
> > Militias are not duly elected representatives of the people. Consequently, they don’t get to tell the government how to run, or tell any of us what to do. If they are breaking laws, they too need to pay the appropriate penalty for doing so.
> >
> > Lock 'em up.
>
> This. If I threatened to shoot state troopers, I imagine there would be consequences as a result of my threats. An elected official who makes that threat should face the repercussions as well.
I haven’t been in contact with them for some time, but I have acquaintances (Og knows, not friends) on the fringes of the militia movement; and from them I’ve learned that the highest possible government official is the duly instituted\* county sheriff. So the state police/troopers/whatever don’t have any particular standing. In fact, since _posse comitatus_ makes the militia an auxiliary of the aforementioned county sheriff, they have more standing than the so-called state “officials.”
If pressed for a rationale, they’ll say that since the Constitution wasn’t properly ratified, the Articles of Confederation still apply. Or maybe that the AOC ceased to be in effect when the Constitution was(n’t) ratified. And just typing that made my head hurt.
“Duly instituted” = “Agrees with me.”
---
### Author:  [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/25 "2019-06-25T01:43:52Z")
The Constitution wasn’t properly ratified? That’s a new one to me. So, the last ~250 years of American history has been one big charade? Quite the procedure error.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/26 "2019-06-25T02:06:22Z")
Is the objection to the Republicans playing hide and seek (which Democrats have done before,) or to the militia protecting the Republican legislators (which, to my knowledge, Democrats have not done?)
---
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/27 "2019-06-25T02:23:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Is the objection to the Republicans playing hide and seek (which Democrats have done before,) or to the militia protecting the Republican legislators (which, to my knowledge, Democrats have not done?)
More the militia thing. I really dislike the GOP leaving the state, but both sides do that. However joining an armed terrorist group and threatening to kill cops is a new low.
Society really needs to be honest about the risk white nationalists pose to our democracy.
---
### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/28 "2019-06-25T02:29:32Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#):
>
> The Constitution wasn’t properly ratified? That’s a new one to me. So, the last ~250 years of American history has been one big charade? Quite the procedure error.
I don’t think I’d heard that one before. I remember Irwin Schiff and others of his ilk arguing that the 16th wasn’t properly ratified and so taxes were illegal, tho.
ETA: Why do I remember? Because he had a huge freaking billboard right over his shop on Sahara for years. I think it’s a weed store now.
---
### Author:  [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/29 "2019-06-25T02:30:02Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> I am not a conservative but I think it’s because many feel they are the superior, authentic, appointed by God people and everyone else is an interloper. And now they have to live in a society run by people they consider inferior, inauthentic outsiders. Climate change isn’t the issue, these same senators were threatening to walk out over bills on vaccination and gun control.
>
> White militia groups have a lot on common with Muslim extremist groups. It’s the same mentality at root just expressed in different cultures. A group of fundamentalist extremists who think Dog is on their side are trying to protect their own status in a rapidly changing world are enraged that people they consider inauthentic inferiors are invading ‘their’ society and calling the shots.
Reminds me a little of a Mormon acquaintance. Not that everyone is completely defined by their faith mind you, but this one individual completely refuses to engage the climate change issue. She thinks it is not human-caused, but that is the end of it. Her ex husband says, and so the discussion is over and she’s going to remain snippy for months, maybe forever.
But! MY ex works for NOAA. I have friends who are literally scientists. I think these types are amused by hanging around with dumb guys like me. Anyway, lady, I would really like to see the evidence behind your position. If I can’t make heads or tails of it, I know people who can!
Nope. Nada. She’d rather discuss ungrateful blacks kneeling on football fields, I got an earful of that. Or Moses’ snake-staff, she’ll discuss that. But not climate change. And she does it in a condescending way.
I am only speculating that the Oregon militia legislators are similar to this Mormon I know. The clinging to a position they can’t/won’t defend seems similar though. At a certain point, and definitely by the time the subject is being addressed in the legislature, you gotta put up or shut up. Let the people see the reasons and decide for themselves. If you can’t convince them, you don’t get to force a wrong/unpopular decision onto everyone.
These legislators should be in Portland explaining their views, not palling around with gunmen in Idaho. I get it that Dems have made moves like this, but the Wisconsin union thing came out of the blue and was very unpopular, so there was some actual representin’ going on in the face of political hackery. All sane people think so 😉
---
### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/30 "2019-06-25T04:09:57Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#):
>
> The Constitution wasn’t properly ratified? That’s a new one to me. So, the last ~250 years of American history has been one big charade? Quite the procedure error.
That’s a pretty common Sovereign Citizen argument, and there’s a lot of overlap between the SovCits and the militia movement.
Go ahead and Google it, if you’re keen to waste a few hours and not a few brain cells.
---
### Author:  [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/31 "2019-06-25T04:26:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Is the objection to the Republicans playing hide and seek (which Democrats have done before,) or to the militia protecting the Republican legislators (which, to my knowledge, Democrats have not done?)
\*\*A senator is threatening to kill state troopers. \*\*
You don’t think that’s worth an objection or two? Or do we need some more “both sides do it!”
---
### Author:  [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/32 "2019-06-25T04:36:49Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#):
>
> The problem is, Oregon (and Washington) are literally divided in half: To the west are the “libruls,” to the east are the “militias.” It is a very sharp divide. The people to the east are Trump supporters **in far greater numbers than in the west.**
(bolding mine)
[Say](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oregon_population_by_region.svg) [what](http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/washington-population/#densityByCounty)?
---
### Author:  [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/33 "2019-06-25T04:41:36Z")
> [@GESancMan](#):
>
> (bolding mine)
>
> [Say](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oregon_population_by_region.svg) [what](http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/washington-population/#densityByCounty)?
You’ve misunderstood my point. I didn’t say there were more of them. I said they supported Trump in far greater numbers than in the west.
I can understand why you were confused by the inartful way I said it, though.
---
### Author:  [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/34 "2019-06-25T04:43:23Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#):
>
> Glad someone started a thread on this. I do not understand the motives of these right wingers at all.
>
> Oregon was going to pass cap and trade. The right freaked out because, from what I have read, this policy would according to them raise expenses on businesses and more generally for energy/fuel.
>
> Don’t they see there is more to it than that? Climate change is real- are they math denialists? Incapable of following the evidence that points toward climate change? Ready to take the world on a Thelma and Louise cliff drive rather than face reality? Unable to grasp that climate change will result in more of the refugees they hate, and far larger expenses than cap and trade will cause?
>
> That is kind of what it looks like to me, but I doubt those are right. Is there some deep rooted conspiracy theory at work? Is there a huge economic disparity between the two halves of the state? Lead in the water?
>
> I truly don’t understand what people are so afraid of that the Law n Order Republicans are willing to flee and threaten to shoot cops. What’s the bugaboo here?
Or they make 45g’s a year as an owner operator of a log truck and pretty much everything has been against them for the last 50 years. Spotted Owl’s, Gas prices, the forests burning. Every time some politition talks It’s bullshit. Cap and trade disproportionately affects rural people who also happen to be right wing but that’s secondary. Cap and trade, as oregon sees it, disproportionately affects transportation costs, benifitting city polluters, and negatively affecting rural communities.
---
### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/35 "2019-06-25T07:42:57Z")
The U.S. Senate can abolish the filibuster rule with a 51% vote. I’m not sure if we ever got a clear consensus to the question:\* Can this rule change be made at any time, or only on the opening day of a session?\*
How about the Oregon House? Can they abolish their quorum rule with a 51% vote? Or is it written into the State Constitution?
---
### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/36 "2019-06-25T11:25:30Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#):
>
> As an outsider, I would ask: Isn’t it up to the people of Oregon, the voters? If they share your revulsion, they should vote them out at the first opportunity. Or has gerrymandering made that a naive hope?
How is this a reasonable contribution to a conversation about worrisome political and social developments anywhere? Yes, I’m some technical sense, decisions are up to voters in a jurisdiction. But that isn’t really relevant when we are trying to understand a situation and it’s implications and discussing opinions regarding the best course of action. Things like this affect everyone, regardless of what side of a border you live on.
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/37 "2019-06-25T14:00:38Z")
When politicians take political positions you disagree with, the solution is to vote them out. When politicians threaten to murder the police, the solution is to arrest them and throw them in jail for a very long time.
---
### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/38 "2019-06-25T14:17:21Z")
Isn’t this report conflating two different things? The [del]threat[/del] mouthing off of a legislator; and the Oregon State Police _taking as_ a threat the announcement that some right-wing groups would participate in a protest march at the capitol? From what I’m reading, it was the state police that shut down the capitol, rather than “militias”.
ETA: at some point shouldn’t it be questioned whether a threat exists solely in the mind of the person feeling threatened? Like an old white woman calling the police because two “gang members” (black males) moved into the house next door?
---
### Author:  [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/39 "2019-06-25T14:59:41Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> ETA: at some point shouldn’t it be questioned whether a threat exists solely in the mind of the person feeling threatened? Like an old white woman calling the police because two “gang members” (black males) moved into the house next door?
Ok, threat established…
> [@](#):
>
> In Idaho, where some of the lawmakers have supposedly fled, the state’s 3 Percenters group was similarly willing to defend the Republicans as well, posting threatening memes on its Facebook page. “This is what the start of a civil war looks like,” the group wrote in one post.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oregon-vs-right-wing-militias-round-2/835899/40 "2019-06-25T15:02:37Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#):
>
> Glad someone started a thread on this. I do not understand the motives of these right wingers at all.
>
> Oregon was going to pass cap and trade. The right freaked out because, from what I have read, this policy would according to them raise expenses on businesses and more generally for energy/fuel.
>
> Don’t they see there is more to it than that? Climate change is real- are they math denialists? Incapable of following the evidence that points toward climate change? Ready to take the world on a Thelma and Louise cliff drive rather than face reality? Unable to grasp that climate change will result in more of the refugees they hate, and far larger expenses than cap and trade will cause?
>
> That is kind of what it looks like to me, but I doubt those are right. Is there some deep rooted conspiracy theory at work? Is there a huge economic disparity between the two halves of the state? Lead in the water?
>
> I truly don’t understand what people are so afraid of that the Law n Order Republicans are willing to flee and threaten to shoot cops. What’s the bugaboo here?
1. Some people genuinely believe that climate change is a hoax.
2. Some people know climate change is real, but nonetheless don’t want to suffer penalties in forms of increased taxes or expenses, even if those would fight climate change.
3. Some people don’t want the opposing party to score a political victory.
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